DS just told me nanny hit him

[ncnewbaby]

I've been on maternity leave so he hasn't seen her for months. She looked after DS from when he was 1 to 3. He's now almost 4.

But I randomly said 'don't worry' to him in her first language (that she used exclusively with him) and he said (with a lot of question-answer), 'That's what "Jane" said. She was very angry when I was at the park and said I had to come in now. She hit me with a blanket when I was at her house. I cried and tried to run away but I didn't know how and she found me and hit me again.'

I asked if there was anything else and he said when he was at the park she pinched him "super-sharp" and he cried but she pinched him more.

I asked why he didn't tell me before and he said "I just didn't."

I asked him if there was anything more and he told me she poked him with a needle in his eye

I don't know what to do in this situation. Any experience or advice?

[quote Ludo19]@anordinarymum your three year old grandson needs to respect your animals and your house. Say he hit your oor dog and she bit him in defence where does that leave you? I'm not in favour of allowing a child regardless of age to be cruel to an animal and it certainly wouldn't happen in my home. There are ways to deter this behaviour.

OP when I was three my nursery teacher smacked me across the face, I remember it to this day. I told my mother at the time and she had a meeting with the head teacher and the nursery nurse who blatantly denied any wrongdoing. I did however see the nursery nurse years later when I was an adult, when I challenged her she apologised for what she had done.[/quote]
I did not say at any point that he is allowed to do any of these things. I said he will do them in an effort to show OP that a three year old child is capable of telling lies and being unkind.
I wish people would read other posts properly before sitting in judgement

I said and quote 'given half a chance'

This is weird, by default I always believe the child first.

I am disturbed by how many people automatically assume that the child is making it up or lying.

I am a teacher. I agree that there is probably some version of the truth here, the eye and the needle is unlikely to be as reported, BUT and it is a huge BUT it is unlikely that this child has made all of it up.
In safeguarding training, you learn that it is rare for children to invent abuse.
The first step is always assume something is at the root of it. ie, you start by believing the child.
It is extremely hard with a 3 year old to get to the bottom once you have asked leading questions.

I think flicking a blanket and pinching sound pretty likely, and did probably happen. The red marks on his back are also a cause for concern. (but he may have run away/not wanted to talk about it because he knew he had done something he shouldn't have, which either led to him getting hurt ie not the nanny's fault, or lead to her hurting him, but he feels responsible)

I am guessing that using her language suddenly brought it back which is why he started talking about it.

You will never actually know or be able to unpick now what actually happened. But I would be willing to bet that there was something, and that the pinching etc did happen. Trouble is, once he has told you a story, that story becomes mixed in his head with the truth because at this age the line between truth and fiction is very hazy.

@steppemum

Fully, fully Agree!!!

@Anordinarymum I'm not judging at all. Hope you're animals are fine!

@steppemum

I am disturbed by how many people automatically assume that the child is making it up or lying.

I am a teacher. I agree that there is probably some version of the truth here, the eye and the needle is unlikely to be as reported, BUT and it is a huge BUT it is unlikely that this child has made all of it up.
In safeguarding training, you learn that it is rare for children to invent abuse.
The first step is always assume something is at the root of it. ie, you start by believing the child.
It is extremely hard with a 3 year old to get to the bottom once you have asked leading questions.

I think flicking a blanket and pinching sound pretty likely, and did probably happen. The red marks on his back are also a cause for concern. (but he may have run away/not wanted to talk about it because he knew he had done something he shouldn't have, which either led to him getting hurt ie not the nanny's fault, or lead to her hurting him, but he feels responsible)

I am guessing that using her language suddenly brought it back which is why he started talking about it.

You will never actually know or be able to unpick now what actually happened. But I would be willing to bet that there was something, and that the pinching etc did happen. Trouble is, once he has told you a story, that story becomes mixed in his head with the truth because at this age the line between truth and fiction is very hazy.

Of course as a teacher you're taught and trained to believe children

That's due to the amount of shit that would be coming down on you and the school if you didn't.

That's not comparable to a parent and child.

Kids make stuff up all the time. Especially when asked leading questions as described in the OP

Also disturbed by people saying they don't believe the child as a first instinct. I'd be calling and giving the nanny a piece of my mind to be honest, not that I'm saying that's my best advice. Just definitely what I'd do. 100 % report it.
This is making me really sad, so I can imagine you feel horrible. Sorry this has happened to you/ your boy

Yeah, it's really no wonder child abuse is so rife if this is really most parents' response to a disclosure.

Ime a 3/4 yo dc will - as a senior policewoman told me - recite abuse exactly as it happened...
Personally I would ring ss for advice op..

@Santaisstilleatingmincepies

Ime a 3/4 yo dc will - as a senior policewoman told me - recite abuse exactly as it happened... Personally I would ring ss for advice op..

Well yes, hopefully they will. However this child has said he's had a needle put in his eye... which really can't have happened without physical evidence, so puts a cloud of doubt over everything else. Nobody is saying to ignore the child, but you can't assume it's gospel either.

It's a horrendous situation, I'd obviously be incensed if I thought my child had been hurt, but equally to go in all guns blazing and "give the nanny a piece of my mind" to quote a pp, when they potentially have done nothing untoward at all?

I think I'd have to use my own judgement here. My knowledge of the child's behaviour, if they are prone to telling untruths, if they've indicated they'd rather be with mum than be in childcare, any acting up due to new sibling.... Also my gut feeling about the nanny from my own experience, any alarm bells etc.

Of course as a teacher you're taught and trained to believe children

That's due to the amount of shit that would be coming down on you and the school if you didn't.

That's not comparable to a parent and child.

Kids make stuff up all the time. Especially when asked leading questions as described in the OP

honestly, this just makes me want bang my head on a desk.
Do you really think the only reason we start by believing a child is in case we get into trouble? I am a parent of 3. I am perfectly aware that kids make things up.
But the EVIDENCE from all those involved in child abuse, is that it is RARE for children to invent abuse. What they do, and what has certainly happened here, is they express it in their own terms. So the 'needle in the eye' is extremely unlikely to be an actual needle and eye. But it is the only language he has to express something. Maybe the whole of that bit was an add on. Or maybe he got a corner of the blanket in his eye and it stung and this is th eonly langugae he has to express it. They also embellish, not because they are 'lying' but because developmentally fact and fiction are very blurred at 3. Because the OP questioned him, it is likely that some of it was embellishments, maybe the whole of the needle and the eye part.

BUT and I cannot say this strongly enough, the child volunteered the first information, before he was questioned. Anyone working with children who have been abused will tell you that is a massive red flag, and suggests that something went on. There is no doubt in my mind that something went on here. The difficulty is now working out what it was. Don't forget that

1. the first information came unasked from the child
2. there was an incident with unexplained red marks on the child's back.

As a parent and a child care professional, I am appalled at how many on this thread dismiss the whole thing because they can't explain the 'needle in the eye' therefore the child must be 'lying'

It is sad that we have such poor understanding of abuse and how children communicate

@steppemum

Of course as a teacher you're taught and trained to believe children

That's due to the amount of shit that would be coming down on you and the school if you didn't.

That's not comparable to a parent and child.

Kids make stuff up all the time. Especially when asked leading questions as described in the OP

honestly, this just makes me want bang my head on a desk.
Do you really think the only reason we start by believing a child is in case we get into trouble? I am a parent of 3. I am perfectly aware that kids make things up.
But the EVIDENCE from all those involved in child abuse, is that it is RARE for children to invent abuse. What they do, and what has certainly happened here, is they express it in their own terms. So the 'needle in the eye' is extremely unlikely to be an actual needle and eye. But it is the only language he has to express something. Maybe the whole of that bit was an add on. Or maybe he got a corner of the blanket in his eye and it stung and this is th eonly langugae he has to express it. They also embellish, not because they are 'lying' but because developmentally fact and fiction are very blurred at 3. Because the OP questioned him, it is likely that some of it was embellishments, maybe the whole of the needle and the eye part.

BUT and I cannot say this strongly enough, the child volunteered the first information, before he was questioned. Anyone working with children who have been abused will tell you that is a massive red flag, and suggests that something went on. There is no doubt in my mind that something went on here. The difficulty is now working out what it was. Don't forget that

1. the first information came unasked from the child
2. there was an incident with unexplained red marks on the child's back.

As a parent and a child care professional, I am appalled at how many on this thread dismiss the whole thing because they can't explain the 'needle in the eye' therefore the child must be 'lying'

It is sad that we have such poor understanding of abuse and how children communicate

Safeguarding training was mentioned. The reason for that training is to reduce risk for both the children in your care and the school

There is a big difference between how people in profession's such as teaching need to handle such disclosures and parents - the fact it's even been attempted to compare the two is mind boggling.

Most would expect a school to take everything seriously, however children often lie and misrepresent the truth - those are facts of life

@notsusan

Also disturbed by people saying they don't believe the child as a first instinct. I'd be calling and giving the nanny a piece of my mind to be honest, not that I'm saying that's my best advice. Just definitely what I'd do. 100 % report it. This is making me really sad, so I can imagine you feel horrible. Sorry this has happened to you/ your boy

So you honestly believe a child had a needle poked in his eye and suffered no physical, visual trauma? no redness, no swelling, no bleeding, no itchiness, no pain, no blurred vision, nothing? Just a normal looking eye? And then would not report such an horrific injury/incident to his mum? Really?? 🙄

Some children do commonly say that an accident is someone hitting them deliberately. I think for young children the concept of an accident or deliberate is a hard one to grasp.

SwimmingIntoMotherhood

Oh right, so if a child discloses abuse at home then we just go - oh look the child is lying.
If a child discloses abuse at school we go - take the child seriously?

So safeguarding training teaches us that children rarely lie about abuse.
You can go on and on all you like about how 'kids lie' but you are flying int he face of all the evidence.
Kids DON'T lie about abuse. Whether that is to Mum or to a teacher,

Again, bang my head on the desk?

Namechangehereandnow

It is not the needle in the ye incident which is raising red flags. It is the child, unprompted saying Nanny hit him and pinched him. Also the red marks unexplained on his back.

But we are not talking about school-aged kids here, but about a three-year-old. Three-year-olds don't exactly lie about this kind of stuff, but their concept of reality and fantasy and dreams, and accidents or deliberate is not yet properly formed.
All allegations should be reported and investigated. But it is quite clear the 3 year old was not poked in the eye by a needle.

Just very anecdotally, I used to teach pre school in the US. There was a lovely little girl who bit the inside of her cheek one day playing. Not long after she had a routine check up at the dentist and when he asked her about the bite said that she had been hit by one of the teachers!
It was rightly investigated and cleared up but was upsetting in the mean time.
It opened my eyes to the tall tales that age group can come up with (didn't have my own kids yet 😂)

I suspect in the case there's an element of truth, ie some kind of accidental injury that has been embellished a bit. But of course it absolutely should be looked into.

For pps asking about Jane's daughter, she is 19 and has a young child who often also played at the house. So not a child herself.

The story was that 'needle incident' happened, Jane's daughter came in and saw, then threatened to hit Jane for hurting DS

@RoyalFamilyFan

But we are not talking about school-aged kids here, but about a three-year-old. Three-year-olds don't exactly lie about this kind of stuff, but their concept of reality and fantasy and dreams, and accidents or deliberate is not yet properly formed. All allegations should be reported and investigated. But it is quite clear the 3 year old was not poked in the eye by a needle.

that is exactly what I am saying.

Something happened. It is clear that there is some garbling in the reporting, due to the blurr between fantasty and reality, but nonetheless something happened.
3 year old don't make up abuse.

3-year-olds misinterpret. So needle in the eye could be nanny using her long fingernails to get the sleep out of his eye. Jane comes in and says don't do that, you could stab him in the eye with your nails if he suddenly moves. With your nails, it would be like getting a needle poked into his eye.
But you say 3-year-olds don't makeup abuse. They can do this when prompted and led in questioning. The OP did do that. Kids this age will tell those they love what they think they want to hear.

They can do this when prompted and led in questioning.

the child's initial statement was unprompted and came out of the blue.
It was not due to any questionsing at all.
Then the OP started to ask and the story gradually got more unlikely.

But the initial claim of abuse came fromt he child, unprompted

You know I have said this, about 6 times, but it seems that no-one on here can read past 'needle in the eye'

Again, mn triumphs with anecdote over fact.

Experts in child abuse, would take that inital claim seriously.
But all the parents on mn say - nah, kids make things up, don't worry

@steppemum I said pages back that I think that did happen. The hit with a blanket may have been an accident, easy to do when lifting up a blanet you were sitting on. And the hit again may have been grabbing him before he ran out the park. Or it may have been deliberate.
I am not ignoring that. I said this pages and pages ago.

RoyalFamilyFan
apologies. I thought you were in the - he made it all up- camp