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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Men who refuse to marry the mothers of their children

408 replies

SparrowNest · 02/01/2022 19:21

You see that so often on here. I don’t mean couples where both parties are happy to marry, but ones where the man refuses despite their partner desperately wanting it, or else strings them along indefinitely.

Is there any reason at all, other than that he doesn’t want to have any duty to provide her with financial security for if they break up? So not only is he already thinking about potentially leaving, he’s happy to fuck over the person he ostensibly currently loves if they do break up.

My AIBU is that I don’t understand why women tolerate it. I suppose the ones being strung along have just been lied to, but having children is actually the bigger commitment in many ways. You’re joined for life. It seems so nasty to be prepared to do that, but not offer your partner the security and commitment they want.

OP posts:
Rainbowqueeen · 03/01/2022 06:29

Such a great point @sjxoxo.

I honestly think that the majority of men do t want to change. They are happy to take the extra work that women do outside the house, their labour inside the house and the ego boost and career enhancements that having a family gives them. But they are not prepared to put in additional work themselves. Which is truly depressing

sharkyandme · 03/01/2022 06:33

I wouldn't settle for it.

sjxoxo · 03/01/2022 06:43

@Rainbowqueeen yes I think you are right -and why would they want to support the idea of marriage when for the last 50 years it has been presented as largely a negative thing for a man to do? This negative portrayal of marriage for men has run alongside the narrative for women being ‘independent, as sexually liberal as she likes, career minded, becoming a mother without the need for a man, having it all’… all have been peddled as positive changes for us women. Now in some cases of course they are. Domestic violence and abuse is lower today than it was in the 40s and we have more freedoms of course. But isn’t it ironic that this positive freedom for women means men are able to take less responsibility for their children and families? I’m not saying the patriarchy have had a meeting and decided they want out of family responsibilities so they can keep their pensions & play golf when they want; but it makes me very uneasy. What’s the solution.. yes to support women so when men do abandon their kids, women aren’t trapped in money & time poverty; but where are the efforts to encourage men to take responsibility for their families?? Is the only thing CMS??? Yet on this very thread, numerous people have mentioned free childcare, better maternity rights, better legal rights- all to encourage and support women. Nothing to encourage men to take responsibility? Xo

Rainbowqueeen · 03/01/2022 07:06

@sjxoxo. Agree completely.

In every aspect of life men are let off the hook. They are considered heroes for doing the school run.

And it’s a woman’s fault if she gets in the situation where she is unmarried and pregnant. There is nothing to stop men saying “yes our relationship has failed but I want the best for my kids so I will acknowledge all your unpaid work (which often they have encouraged as it has left them able to continue their careers unimpeded) so I will go above and beyond the minimum to ensure that their lifestyles change as little as possible. I will give you part of my pension. I will make sure you are housed adequately. I will take on my fair share of child rearing”.
But can anyone name an instance of that happening.

We need to hold men accountable for their unwillingness to do the right thing by their children and by their ex-partners.

TrishM80 · 03/01/2022 07:12

@RedCandyApple

Imo most men don’t want to get married, it’s mainly women despite MN harping on about how it benefits men more than women (getting married) most men don’t actually want to, mainly women.
Absolutely. For an institution that supposedly benefits men more than women, it's women who push for marriage more than men. How many times do we hear a couple is going on holiday somewhere, usually abroad, the woman's girlfriends will be getting her all hyped up about "ooh, he's going to pop the question on this trip, I know it!".

Then if the fella doesn't propose, the woman is devastated and he's in the doghouse for the next 6 months until he's almost guilted into proposing!

MoreAloneTime · 03/01/2022 07:12

I think one of the problems with this is with women not having all the time in the world to have babies.

Say you're 35, you don't want to have kids before being married but you've been with your partner for 10 years and he doesn't believe in it. The prospect of the current dating scene makes you shudder (that's a whole other thread) and you know you may not have enough time to conceive by the time you've found someone else if you do at all.

I can see how a lot of these situations could make you feel passive and like you have to just make the best of what you have

NdujaWannaDance · 03/01/2022 07:16

If marriage is very, very important to you you need to insist on it before you have children. That's your leverage. If you've already given the other side exactly what they want without any conditions attached, then you have nothing to negotiate with.

Onlyrainbows · 03/01/2022 07:26

My now husband was never really bothered about getting married. I can't remember exactly the words he used but they were hurtful. His ex-wife got engaged before we did and that also made "the pain" worse. My DH didn't actually have any reason to not get married, in reality the one benefited in the long term out of it was him. One evening during lockdown I had a mini breakdown about it and told him I wasn't comfortable about being unmarried. So we then set the date, bit couldn't agree on the type of wedding and that went on for months... One day everything changed and he was actually happy and even thrilled about getting married. We got married and that's been one of the happiest days of our lives (small registry office wedding in the end). When I ask him why did he act the way he did he's very apologetic about it and just tells me that getting married has only made our lives better in every possible way. I think men in general don't see the point of getting married

TrishM80 · 03/01/2022 07:33

@NdujaWannaDance

If marriage is very, very important to you you need to insist on it before you have children. That's your leverage. If you've already given the other side exactly what they want without any conditions attached, then you have nothing to negotiate with.
I'm not sure it's the leverage you think it is. A lot of men aren't too bothered about having kids either. Again, it's usually women pushing for that.
Mudday · 03/01/2022 07:39

Marriage really should be about love and respect before money security blah blah, and before you start yawning and dash off to the nearest bitter and twisted post; one thing only should matter; that you want to make it clear to the world that your partner is absolutely off the market because you both are lucky and loving enough to be happy and miserable together and take it in turns to pilot and copilot. It takes guts but if you're lucky and brave enough, it's like a campfire that keeps you strong, adventurous and free to face life in a vast wilderness together.

NdujaWannaDance · 03/01/2022 07:40

I'm not sure it's the leverage you think it is. A lot of men aren't too bothered about having kids either. Again, it's usually women pushing for that.

I don't think that's true. I think many/most men do want a life partner and a family, they just don't necessarily see the point of marriage.

But if you are with a man who doesn't care much for either, then of course it's not leverage. If you do want them then you need to look for a different man.

Most women are happy enough to cohabit initially and it's usually only when they are ready for children or have already had them that marriage becomes very important to them.

I'm saying that if you don't want to risk being the mother to children of a man who won't marry you then you need to insist on marriage first.

If he says no then at least you know where you can stand and move on before it's too late and the children are already there. Then you are reduced to being whining, insecure nag about it.

Crazykatie · 03/01/2022 07:50

One of my nieces, she was 25 at the time had lived with her boyfriend for 5 yrs and he steadfastly refused to get married. He was “wealthy” a good catch!, so no doubt about the reason, so she got pregnant deliberately, then a second due, he did marry her 6 months gone.

Her attitude was he is a nice guy, I love him, he can afford child maintenance if it goes wrong, so I’m not waiting, they went on to have 4 children and are a strong as ever

Dozer · 03/01/2022 07:53

Pretty shitty behaviour from you niece! Sounds like it worked out well for her, but still shitty.

user1487194234 · 03/01/2022 07:54

I would never have had children without being married
Lots of women seem to think the man will change his mind down the line

NdujaWannaDance · 03/01/2022 07:55

Absolutely Dozer Horribly controlling and manipulative behaviour.

Perhaps the poor bloke 'steadfastly refused' to get married because he was still under 25 and wasn't sure he was ready?! Sounds like a perfectly responsible attitude to me.

TrishM80 · 03/01/2022 08:02

@Crazykatie

One of my nieces, she was 25 at the time had lived with her boyfriend for 5 yrs and he steadfastly refused to get married. He was “wealthy” a good catch!, so no doubt about the reason, so she got pregnant deliberately, then a second due, he did marry her 6 months gone.

Her attitude was he is a nice guy, I love him, he can afford child maintenance if it goes wrong, so I’m not waiting, they went on to have 4 children and are a strong as ever

Aw, what a beautiful romantic story.....!
sofato5miles · 03/01/2022 08:10

The anecdotes about women wanting to be married more does not reflect my circle. Most of us are tertiary educated professionals and I noticed that the most successful were married much earlier. The men wanted wives and careers and ticked them off. My ex DH was much keener to marry than me.

It was/ is part of the whole package and appearing like a suitable City team player.

georgarina · 03/01/2022 08:18

I have an uncle like this. My aunt has three children with him, they've been together for around 20 years, live together, and she once even bought herself a ring and a wedding dress. But he refused to propose. Just avoided it, even though she so desperately wanted it and once threatened to leave. I really have no idea why.

LowlandLucky · 03/01/2022 08:34

Simple solution if this bothers you, don't have children unless you are married. The biggest commitment is having a child so if one half of the partnership can't make the lesser commitment how the hell do you trust them to make the biggest commitment ?

Crazykatie · 03/01/2022 08:50

@Dozer

Pretty shitty behaviour from you niece! Sounds like it worked out well for her, but still shitty.
They are a natural couple, even so probably would not have got married if his mother hadn’t given him a push. MIL is nieces best friend and helps a lot with the kids - one of the good MIL relationship stories, so they’re not all bad.
ElectraBlue · 03/01/2022 09:13

Then maybe if a woman wants marriage and children, they should first get married before they have kids?

I don't think you need to get married to have security and commitment but if that is what someone wants then they should make it clear that this is a deal breaker.

If you have kids and give a man everything without them having to marry you, why would they bother to do it? we can't control how other people behave but we can make our needs and expectation from the start. If marriage is what you want, don't stay with a man who won't provide you with that.

Plumedenom · 03/01/2022 09:15

I agree. I think marriage is like kids. It's something you need to discuss early in the relationship and be upfront with each other. It shouldn't be dangled like a carrot and then whipped away. For a lot of people it is important.

BoudecaBains · 03/01/2022 09:38

Because an awful lot of men don't want to get married and if you have significant assets to your name, then you'd be insane to even consider it.

Ultimately you need to take responsibilty for yourself, make it perfectly clear how you see your future and don't have kids until you are married.

LuluBlakey1 · 03/01/2022 09:41

@TrishM80 'Aw, what a beautiful romantic story.....!'

Not.

VikingOnTheFridge · 03/01/2022 09:53

Truth is, it isnt though is it? I mean, it should be, but you can just walk out on your kids and never look back. Divorcing has a whole series of legal stages and cost implications

Correct.

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