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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Men who refuse to marry the mothers of their children

408 replies

SparrowNest · 02/01/2022 19:21

You see that so often on here. I don’t mean couples where both parties are happy to marry, but ones where the man refuses despite their partner desperately wanting it, or else strings them along indefinitely.

Is there any reason at all, other than that he doesn’t want to have any duty to provide her with financial security for if they break up? So not only is he already thinking about potentially leaving, he’s happy to fuck over the person he ostensibly currently loves if they do break up.

My AIBU is that I don’t understand why women tolerate it. I suppose the ones being strung along have just been lied to, but having children is actually the bigger commitment in many ways. You’re joined for life. It seems so nasty to be prepared to do that, but not offer your partner the security and commitment they want.

OP posts:
AlDanvers · 02/01/2022 19:26

I can't really answer yabu or yanbu.

There's loads of different situations. There's many were the women have been strung along. But many where the men have never mentioned it or been clear they don't want it. But the women carry on assuming or hoping it will happen.

But also, you can't control your partner or force them to marry you. You can control your own life AND nor set up home and have kids with someone who you aren't married to if its important to you.

Fwiw I don't think it's always the men don't want to provide. The flip side of that is that women only want to marry to be provided for....surely that's not true.

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to be married.

And anyone with sustainably more in assets than a partner really needs ro think about getting married. Though I believe people should have to get independent financial advice before agreeing to marry.

AlDanvers · 02/01/2022 19:28

It seems so nasty to be prepared to do that, but not offer your partner the security and commitment they want.

Absolutely disagree with this. As someone who won't get married, you can Absolutely be committed without marriage.

But also if one person wants it and one doesn't why does the one who does get to claim the moral high ground if their partner doesn't?

Why does the one that doesn't want it have to do it because the other does?

GrandmasCat · 02/01/2022 19:28

I think most women hope the men will change their minds especially after children.

But I think that once that you are living/acting as a couple and parenting children together, the one who is better off financially very very rarely will change their mind to want to marry. Sadly, the saying why to buy the cow when the milk is free covers a lot of household chores and duties.

Newyearoldyou · 02/01/2022 19:31

I agree.

Having said that with perhaps second relationships and a nasty divorce I can understand it more.
But especially first relationships and first children I can't understand it. It's often richer men who do this also, strangely

fallfallfall · 02/01/2022 19:31

My “SIL” tells me that currently it’s not feasible for tax reasons.

TedMullins · 02/01/2022 19:32

I don’t think it’s as black and white as that. I’m a woman who doesn’t want to marry. If it’s important to you then make it a dealbreaker if it hasn’t happened by X time. Of course if someone lies or strings you along saying they will that’s different, but I don’t think not wanting to be married is morally wrong in itself. Plus, if neither have a high income or any assets then there might not even be a financial protection element.

DesdemonaDryEyes · 02/01/2022 19:33

I can never understand why folk make such a big deal about proposals and weddings when they already share children and a house.

Original poster
SparrowNest · 02/01/2022 19:35

@AlDanvers

I can't really answer yabu or yanbu.

There's loads of different situations. There's many were the women have been strung along. But many where the men have never mentioned it or been clear they don't want it. But the women carry on assuming or hoping it will happen.

But also, you can't control your partner or force them to marry you. You can control your own life AND nor set up home and have kids with someone who you aren't married to if its important to you.

Fwiw I don't think it's always the men don't want to provide. The flip side of that is that women only want to marry to be provided for....surely that's not true.

There's nothing wrong with not wanting to be married.

And anyone with sustainably more in assets than a partner really needs ro think about getting married. Though I believe people should have to get independent financial advice before agreeing to marry.

It much more commonly is women who go part time or take career breaks to raise children, though. There are exceptions but I think that must contribute to men not wanting to commit and provide security, and women feeling vulnerable without marriage.
OP posts:
2TurtleDovesInARow · 02/01/2022 19:36

I once worked with an intelligent educated woman whose partner had said she had to choose marriage or kids, so she chose kids. I was a bit 🤨 at that but she had her own property in addition to their shared one and kept her career so I suppose she wasn't too vulnerable. I just didn't understand why she stuck with a guy with such a weird attitude. Surely you either want kids/marriage or you don't?!

Comedycook · 02/01/2022 19:38

Your op is fundamentally sexist as it seems to presume the man is always the one who is better off financially. I know plenty of couples who have got together and the woman has owned property while the man has been renting previously.

AlDanvers · 02/01/2022 19:38

@SparrowNest much more commonly is women who go part time or take career breaks to raise children, though. There are exceptions but I think that must contribute to men not wanting to commit and provide security, and women feeling vulnerable without marriage.

Then dont move in and have kids with someone who won't marry you?

Or keep you career full time and remain as financially independent, as is possible when sharing a home.

Insist you own or rent with both names on the tenancy/mortgage and deeds? Before moving in and having kids.

RedCandyApple · 02/01/2022 19:38

Imo most men don’t want to get married, it’s mainly women despite MN harping on about how it benefits men more than women (getting married) most men don’t actually want to, mainly women.

sheroku · 02/01/2022 19:39

I'm a woman who doesn't want to get married and I completely agree with you OP. If you don't want to get married it's so important to tell your partner that and make sure they're ok with it. Especially before you have kids together. There are far too many men stringing women along on the proviso that they'll propose one day and then never do. It's not fair.

yellowleaves123 · 02/01/2022 19:39

Most people I know don't really consider the security that marriage provides you. I have a friend who is mother to 3 children, engaged, wants to get married, partner doesn't want to spend the money on a wedding. She was really shocked when I mentioned the security that being married would give her, especially as she has spent years not working/working part time whilst raising their children.

In honesty, when I got married, I got married for love and nothing more. I wanted to be a married couple, a unit, same last name when we had kids etc. Only now as a mother of children do I appreciate the added security that marriage brings. Still love DH with all my heart, I just appreciate the other bits of it that I didn't recognise at the time.

Original poster
SparrowNest · 02/01/2022 19:41

@Comedycook

Your op is fundamentally sexist as it seems to presume the man is always the one who is better off financially. I know plenty of couples who have got together and the woman has owned property while the man has been renting previously.
It assumes that women are more likely to take a career break or reduced hours on having children as that’s a demonstrable fact.
OP posts:
Original poster
SparrowNest · 02/01/2022 19:43

[quote AlDanvers]**@SparrowNest* much more commonly is women who go part time or take career breaks to raise children, though. There are exceptions but I think that must contribute to men not wanting to commit and provide security, and women feeling vulnerable without marriage.*

Then dont move in and have kids with someone who won't marry you?

Or keep you career full time and remain as financially independent, as is possible when sharing a home.

Insist you own or rent with both names on the tenancy/mortgage and deeds? Before moving in and having kids.[/quote]
Well, that was kind of my point. I don’t know why people accept that kind of treatment.

OP posts:
StoneofDestiny · 02/01/2022 19:43

Women don't have to have children with men before they commit to marriage. Their choice, it's not inflicted upon them.

LondonQueen · 02/01/2022 19:43

There's more to life than being married, if I divorced DH I certainly wouldn't get remarried, however I also wouldn't change my name as I would want the same name as my DC.

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 02/01/2022 19:43

I think it means that he thinks his artner isn't "the one". I've seen time and time again this same story but when they break up he marries another woman a year later.

ComtesseDeSpair · 02/01/2022 19:49

I think that too many women get into relationships hoping that they can make their partner change his mind about many things, marriage being one of them. Too many women actively put themselves in crappy positions, and in a world where women can be educated, earning well and owning property, I don’t quite understand why women are portrayed as helpless creatures having no agency in their life decisions and relationships they stay in.

As an aside, marriage only really gives you some security in divorce if there’s property and money involved: women married to low or average earners and who rent their home (an increasing number of people) will leave their marriage with nothing.

AlDanvers · 02/01/2022 19:49

Well, that was kind of my point. I don’t know why people accept that kind of treatment.

Because they choose to. At that moment they decide being in the relationship and having f a baby is kore important. Unfortunately that often turns out to be a bad decision. But people make bad decisions all the time.

LethargicActress · 02/01/2022 19:50

Why do so many women, who clearly have way more contraceptive choices than men do, allow themselves to become pregnant outside of marriage if it’s going to be detrimental to them?

Probably because they want a baby regardless, so they don’t need you to portray them as victims of nasty men who won’t provide for them.

The men who can have the family they want without offering marriage have no incentive to marry when financially, it could end be being very detrimental to them, and they justify it by telling themselves they’ll always support their kids if there’s a split.

TeenyQueen · 02/01/2022 19:51

I think the financial aspect of marriage is one thing, but we often forget that marriage bring both parties a lot of legal protections if someone dies or is seriously injured. It also gives you the right to use the same surname, which was actually very important to me, I would hate to have a different name than my children.

I would not have had children with DH unless we were married, if we'd had an unplanned pregnancy I would have expected to get married before the baby was born (I was never fussed about having a big wedding).

Some people say that marriage is just a piece of paper, but it's a pretty important piece of paper legally if something goes wrong.

TedMullins · 02/01/2022 19:51

As an aside, marriage only really gives you some security in divorce if there’s property and money involved: women married to low or average earners and who rent their home (an increasing number of people) will leave their marriage with nothing.

This! I’m actually always baffled by the ‘marriage will give you financial protection’ line because for a lot of ordinary people there isn’t any money or assets to speak of.

Kshhuxnxk · 02/01/2022 19:51

It really is quite easy - don't have children before marriage if marriage is that important to you.