Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Men who refuse to marry the mothers of their children

408 replies

SparrowNest · 02/01/2022 19:21

You see that so often on here. I don’t mean couples where both parties are happy to marry, but ones where the man refuses despite their partner desperately wanting it, or else strings them along indefinitely.

Is there any reason at all, other than that he doesn’t want to have any duty to provide her with financial security for if they break up? So not only is he already thinking about potentially leaving, he’s happy to fuck over the person he ostensibly currently loves if they do break up.

My AIBU is that I don’t understand why women tolerate it. I suppose the ones being strung along have just been lied to, but having children is actually the bigger commitment in many ways. You’re joined for life. It seems so nasty to be prepared to do that, but not offer your partner the security and commitment they want.

OP posts:
ComtesseDeSpair · 02/01/2022 21:53

@SunshineCake1

I think the men in question care more about money and property than a child and see a child as less of a commitment, even less important as they can walk away and frequently do.
When you look at all the threads here with women being encouraged to “take him for every penny”, seek occupation orders and Mesher orders on property, go after pensions built up for decades before they were even on the scene, can you always blame them? I’m a woman in that situation and it does make marriage a difficult decision: I’m not a teenage romantic and so I know there’s a reasonable chance that we’ll divorce and a reasonable chance I’ll be relieved of half my house and civil service pension in the process. It’s an enormous gamble to take and I can absolutely see why many people don’t want to put themselves in that position.

As much as we talk about women “sacrificing” their careers and financial independence to be SAHMs, the reality is that a many women want to be SAHMs / very part time workers and sometimes railroad their spouse into accepting that regardless. I know a couple. It must, then, be particularly galling for those men on divorce to be relieved of their pension and the greater amount of the house because they had a dependent spouse, when they didn’t necessarily want the spouse to be dependent in the first place.

FrustratedTeddyLamp · 02/01/2022 21:59

If marriage is that important to a woman before marriage they have plenty of contraceptive choices, if theres an unplanned pregnancy they still have options to consider like abortion or giving the child up for adoption, if none of those options are ideal for the women involved there's always celibacy.

Porcupineintherough · 02/01/2022 22:01

I dont really think anyone should be forced to marry against their will, male or female.

That said I wouldnt have set up as a common law wife with anyone, and even less so as I wanted children. And that I think is the answer. If marriage is important to you dont settle for less in a relationship.

mobear · 02/01/2022 22:03

@XingMing In theory but his adult children are still pretty needy!

When DC was born he bought us a house - I have my own property and didn’t contribute to the deposit - he put my name on the deeds/ mortgage and took out insurance to cover the outstanding mortgage in the event of his death. As I have my own property (worth 1/3rd of what our house is worth) and work, I’m comfortable with my circumstances even if he doesn’t want to get married.

I can see why it is safer to get married but there are routes you can take to secure your financial future if your partner has an irrational or moral objection to marriage.

Grida · 02/01/2022 22:05

I think it works both ways. Three of my female friends who have kids, and are not married, are all the higher earners in their relationships. Interestingly, they have never pushed for marriage. I don’t think it has occurred to their partners that they might lose out. A lot of unmarried men are also not aware that they should a be there to register their name on their child’s birth certificate.

eeek88 · 02/01/2022 22:07

I have more assets than my baby’s dad and a higher income. Neither of us have a strong urge to get married. We talked about it and he pointed out that I have a lot to lose by getting married so he didn’t want to pressurise me into it but was happy to marry if I wanted to. (Very romantic I know!) I don’t feel the need to get married and would rather spend the money on other things.

iwanttobeonleave · 02/01/2022 22:11

@fallfallfall

My “SIL” tells me that currently it’s not feasible for tax reasons.
How odd, there are plenty of tax advantages of being married. I can't think of one tax disadvantage of being married!!
ParkingDiagram · 02/01/2022 22:13

@FrustratedTeddyLamp

If marriage is that important to a woman before marriage they have plenty of contraceptive choices, if theres an unplanned pregnancy they still have options to consider like abortion or giving the child up for adoption, if none of those options are ideal for the women involved there's always celibacy.
Indeed.

As a woman, your sole purpose in life is not to have children.

As a responsible adult, you should not have children if you cannot support and care for them, don’t want them or cannot love them.

If you get pregnant unexpectedly, you can have an abortion and no one will judge you.

Wizzbangfizz · 02/01/2022 22:15

Personally I wouldn't have had children before I was married as it was important to me.

SantaClawsServiette · 02/01/2022 22:21

I think any time there is a society wide change like this, you have to look beyond what individuals may think or do and see what's changed at a higher level.

In this case, we've largely removed the stigma of not being married as a parent or not having married parents, and we really don't push marriage as much more than a kind of party. So people don't see the point, and they don't feel like they need to do it for their kids. And then not many people insist on it before sex in order to avoid an unmarried pregnancy, either.

I think a certain amount of it just goes back to that 1960's Joni Mitchell type, we don't need a piece of paper to really be in love and committed thing. That leaves out a lot of the legal/financial elements, but it also only half the story with the commitment too - there is something to a formalization of sorts, or explicit element to making such a commitment, that makes a difference to people, compared to the situation where people fall into living together without really stopping to make a decision about long-term commitment.

SantaClawsServiette · 02/01/2022 22:22

And honestly, given that it is ok for women to say they won't marry because it could be financially bad for them, it should be no wonder that men might feel justified saying the same things.

OllyBJolly · 02/01/2022 22:30

@Comedycook

Your op is fundamentally sexist as it seems to presume the man is always the one who is better off financially. I know plenty of couples who have got together and the woman has owned property while the man has been renting previously.
You may know of many @Comedycook but the evidence will tell you that it’s almost always the male who will have the better career, higher earnings and more continuous and impressive CV once children are involved.

What irks me is when couples tell me they “couldn’t afford” to get married pre kids and plan to do it later. Fucking crazy!

mycatistrans · 02/01/2022 22:30

Everyone has agency and control over their own lives. You decide what you're prepared to accept! I don't have much sympathy for people who are passengers in their own lives. In terms of giving up work and relying on the protection of marriage - it's an unpopular opinion - but I don't think it's fair to be completely supported by another person, whether married or not. If my husband was going to give up work or go part time while I did all the legwork, I would not be impressed! No wonder some people don't want to get married if it puts them in the situation of being fiscally responsible for another adult.

ThePlumVan · 02/01/2022 22:33

…when men (mostly) point to the increasing brood of children and say ‘there’s my commitment right there’ knowing full well the mother of his children wants to be married.

1 unplanned pregnancy ok, you can take minimum mat leave and get your career back on track and just about afford childcare, but I wouldn’t risk a second child without being married first.

StoneofDestiny · 02/01/2022 22:34

Sad so many people say 'I don't need a piece of paper ie marriage' to prove my commitment. To the majority of married people, marriage is a heck of a lot more than 'a piece of paper'. You might as well say - a Will is 'just a piece of paper.

Most married people chose to marry to demonstrate to each other and to others publicly that they are 100% committed to each other, enough to have it legally bound in a contract. True it doesn't stop divorce, abandonment, vows being broken etc - but the intention in getting married is not to do that. The fact that marriage provides additional security through contract doesn't render it to 'just a piece of paper'.

DrSbaitso · 02/01/2022 22:38

The "piece of paper" thing drives me bonkers. There are all sorts of good reasons why someone might not want to marry but that isn't one of them. Surely nobody truly thinks legal documents are just "pieces of paper"?

It must mean something if you've got such an aversion to it.

FreedomFaith · 02/01/2022 22:41

@Kshhuxnxk

It really is quite easy - don't have children before marriage if marriage is that important to you.
This. As old fashioned as it sounds, it stands up. If your partner won't marry you, you want marriage, and you both want kids, then you either accept one and not the other, or leave them and find someone who will give you both. People don't leave though out of fear they won't find someone else.
IncompleteSenten · 02/01/2022 22:42

Yup.

By their logic, the deed to your house is just a piece of paper.
Your contract of employment is just a piece of paper

littlebilliie · 02/01/2022 22:51

Having children is a bigger commitment than getting married. If marriage is off the cards that means commitment is too.

AlbertBridge · 02/01/2022 22:56

Women often think that living with a man is a step towards marriage. In a man's mind, it's a side step.

My brother is living with a girlfriend of 11 million years and has no desire to marry her because he loves her (in a companion/best friend type way) but isn't in love with her.

Essentially, he doesn't fancy her. I think men have to fancy the arse off you to want to marry you. You have to be the very best that they feel they can get. Ideally, better than they ever thought they could get. Otherwise of course they won't make a legal promise never to cop off with another woman for the rest of their life. Why would they?

mathanxiety · 02/01/2022 22:59

People don't leave though out of fear they won't find someone else.

This is low self esteem.

Waxonwaxoff0 · 02/01/2022 23:04

I was married but neither of us had a pot to piss in when we divorced so it made no difference. We rented and had no savings.

gofigureit · 02/01/2022 23:04

I agree, if marriage is important to you then don't have children first.

Most of the married couples I know did it this way round - I think I know of only one couple who did it the other way round (they are a ONS which resulted in pregnancy but otherwise they are a VERY traditional/conservative couple), but plenty of couple with children who haven't married and never ever will (might be out of choice, might not be - I don't ask because I see threads on here every single day about this subject and I know how emotive it is).

Porcupineintherough · 02/01/2022 23:08

@littlebilliie

Having children is a bigger commitment than getting married. If marriage is off the cards that means commitment is too.
Truth is, it isnt though is it? I mean, it should be, but you can just walk out on your kids and never look back. Divorcing has a whole series of legal stages and cost implications.
Cameleongirl · 02/01/2022 23:17

It really is quite easy - don't have children before marriage if marriage is that important to you.

I agree, @Kshhuxnxk. I wanted to get married and then have children so that's what I did. If I hadn't wanted to get married, we'd now live together and have children, with no expectation of marriage.

It's so much easier to establish your relationship expectations first, then have children.

Swipe left for the next trending thread