Men who refuse to marry the mothers of their children

[SparrowNest]

You see that so often on here. I don’t mean couples where both parties are happy to marry, but ones where the man refuses despite their partner desperately wanting it, or else strings them along indefinitely.

Is there any reason at all, other than that he doesn’t want to have any duty to provide her with financial security for if they break up? So not only is he already thinking about potentially leaving, he’s happy to fuck over the person he ostensibly currently loves if they do break up.

My AIBU is that I don’t understand why women tolerate it. I suppose the ones being strung along have just been lied to, but having children is actually the bigger commitment in many ways. You’re joined for life. It seems so nasty to be prepared to do that, but not offer your partner the security and commitment they want.

I didn’t want to marry my exH, he pressured me into it. Not all women want to get married.

@Porcupineintherough

I think even the most deluded woman knows whether she's married or not. So at the point she decides to start or continue a pregnancy she knows that she is making herself vulnerable. It's a choice and perhaps if we didnt focus girls so much on the romantic side of life and more on the hard financial realities, it would happen less often. Especially if we changed the law to make both parents properly financially responsible for their children.

Ehhh, you're conflating women knowing if they're married with women knowing about the impact of a marriage contract. Emphatically not the same thing. There is a lot of misunderstanding on this issue.

@Newyearnewme2022

I didn’t want to marry my exH, he pressured me into it. Not all women want to get married.

For the love of god. Does this have to be explained every single time?

The thread is about women who desperately want to be married, but the man refuses. Try reading the OP.

I was talking to a colleague earlier today and she told me that her daughter (whom I've met a couple of times) is engaged and getting married later this year. She's mid-20's, he's a year or so older and they've been dating for about three years.

I'm assuming that getting married is something important to both of them so they're getting on with it. There's no point hanging around waiting if you're not on the same page about marriage/not getting married.

@ComtesseDeSpair
I’m curious what percentage of the country think common law marriage is a thing. It seems to be a common misunderstanding. I remember doing a story for a writing group about a woman who had lived with partner for a while and he threw her out. People in the group said it was unrealistic as she’d be entitled to assets etc as they’d lived together for a while. No one spoke against this point. Even when I went away to research it some still seemed unconvinced.

@MimiDaisy11

It's still shockingly common for people to believe in common law marriage.

I have been banging on about this forever but I think this ought to be taught in school.

The MN variant is 'having a baby with someone is a bigger commitment than marriage'. It's really not...

I have been banging on about this forever but I think this ought to be taught in school.
It is.

Is it taught in schools now? Excellent.

One of my otherwise smart friends was in a quandary a few years ago about asking her ex-boyfriend to move out by a certain date, even though he hadn’t found anywhere to live yet (they had literally split a couple of days previously, amicably) because “after two years he gets half the house because he’ll be my common law husband”.

We all tried to correct her, but she was having none of it. No, common law spouses were A THING! And this was an intelligent professional woman. Christ.

It's almost as though people think anything can become real if enough people keep saying it

@FallonCarringtonWannabe

I have been banging on about this forever but I think this ought to be taught in school. It is.

Is it?

@thepeopleversuswork it is.

What type of school do you work in where it isnt?
What type of campaigning have you been doing?

Also, why is the answer on here about ANYTHING always it should be taught in schools.

How much time do these people think there in in schools to to teach children everything they ever need to know? Most of this should be taught by parents.

Laws change and knowledge grows. What you might have been taught in the 80’s and 90’s is not necessary the current law / understanding. You cannot expect to know everything you will ever need to know from school. You are supposed to be continuing to learn throughout your life.

At some point adults have to take responsibility to educate themselves before they make decisions.

The pp’s friend who didnt believe common law husband wasnt a thing certainly didnt learn that at school.

Well, surely the problem was that she DIDN’T know, and it would have been better for her to have picked up that knowledge at some point in her life?

I get what you are saying, schools can’t teach all life skills, but this would be an excellent candidate for the PHSE (? I might have the acronym wrong) syllabus, wouldn’t it?

Parents can't teach it if they don't know either.

I'd like to see a government awareness campaign. Not telling people what to do, but giving information so they can make an informed decision. Can't get over a PP getting worked up over the idea that marriage is nothing more or less than a legal contract...

I should contact my MP, I suppose, but he's a lazy useless dickhead who doesn't give a shit.

It would be better coming from parents, but the problem there is that a lot of parents won't understand either. You can't accurately convey what you don't know.

And getting schools to do it doesn't seem to be the answer either.

I'm not sure how much use a 1 off lesson in school would be if you come from a sphere where people constantly reinforce this belief in common law marriage and rights. I mean, there is a lot of information out there for anyone who cares to look or think about it.

@Iamthewombat

Well, surely the problem was that she DIDN’T know, and it would have been better for her to have picked up that knowledge at some point in her life?

I get what you are saying, schools can’t teach all life skills, but this would be an excellent candidate for the PHSE (? I might have the acronym wrong) syllabus, wouldn’t it?

Marriage is certainly on the curriculum. I teach it every year and have done for many, many years. Why would common law marriage be on it when it isnt a thing? Do you honestly think schools have the time to teach about things that aren't a thing???

Family life IS on the pshe curriculum. It is also on the RE gcse spec.

I think part of the problem with education and conversations and awareness raising about relationship security and marriage and legal rights is that they require people to think uncomfortable thoughts about their relationship failing and ending. Many people simply don’t want to entertain that, they’d prefer to believe that they’re in love and have a wonderful relationship and their OH would never ever hurt them.

On threads about prenups, for example, you’ll see many posters stating things like “I’d never have a prenup and if you would then your relationship is dead in the water because you’re already thinking about breaking up before you’ve even got married” or “if you have to have a prenup it means you don’t trust your partner, but I trust my OH completely.” Hell, on threads about cheating you’ll see posters confidently asserting “I know my OH would never cheat, he’s not that type of man, he despises cheaters, I totally trust him.” Many people simply don’t want to give headspace to the idea that their relationship is fallible, that their OH is just as capable of cheating or turning out to be bastard as anyone else’s, and that’s why they need some form of safety net in the form of a contract.

Marriage in our culture is a weird dichotomy, it tries to speak both of love and legality, which aren’t easy bedfellows. Many people want to believe that if you have the former, you simply don’t need the latter. Amor vincit omnia.

Do you honestly think schools have the time to teach about things that aren't a thing???

That wasn’t what I suggested. No need to get defensive. I suggested that PHSE lessons would be a good way to inform young women that a common fallacy likely to affect them and their futures was just that: a fallacy.

If 50% of people believed that the earth was flat, contrary to all evidence, would you say that schools shouldn’t challenge that fallacy, even though it is clearly nonsense?

@Porcupineintherough

I'm not sure how much use a 1 off lesson in school would be if you come from a sphere where people constantly reinforce this belief in common law marriage and rights. I mean, there is a lot of information out there for anyone who cares to look or think about it.

There certainly is, but you'd have to realise you needed to look at it. We don't know what we don't know, iyswim. So the problem continues.

[quote FallonCarringtonWannabe]@thepeopleversuswork it is.

What type of school do you work in where it isnt?
What type of campaigning have you been doing?[/quote]
I'm not a teacher: not sure where you got the idea from that I am? It probably should be taught be parents but as a lot of parents seem to be under the impression that common law marriage is a thing that message clearly isn't getting through.

@ComtesseDeSpair also makes a really important point here about marriage which is that its both emotional and intensely private (and to some extent moral) but also with a legal dimension, which is an unusual and quite uneasy combination. A lot of people aren't comfortable thinking about their marriage ending, so they just don't think about it. Much like death.

I also think the way marriage is communicated about to young people (and young girls in particular) is often very unhelpful: Disneyfied nonsense. You only have to look at the amount of threads on here that go into thinking about bridesmaids, dresses, table settings etc, versus the amount of discussion around the legal mechanics of marriage to see how unbalanced this is.

There's still this vague, woolly feeling that marriage is something you do when you're in love and want kids and everything will turn out happily ever after once you've had a big party. And precious little discussion that marriage could be something which will make or break your financial health and which you really need to understand.

There's obviously something that's getting lost in translation and if parents aren't doing a good job of this then perhaps schools should.

That wasn’t what I suggested. No need to get defensive. I suggested that PHSE lessons would be a good way to inform young women that a common fallacy likely to affect them and their futures was just that: a fallacy.

It IS taught. Ffs. Yhe issue is that other adults frwqurnlt spout nonesnese to their chidlren and their children believenit.
X

The recent advice on here was don't get married if you have significantly more assets than your husband. Surely this is just the reverse?

The whole common law wife thing just irritates me. Some of my friends are highly educated and in responsible,
Professional jobs and still believe it’s a thing.

But, I do think having kids with someone is more “tying” than getting married. You can get divorced without kids and the person is out of your life after a few years or whatever. But if you have kids, you’re likely to be tied
To them through your
Kids