Prince Andrew

[Tevion28]

Do you think guilty or innocent

@CurlyhairedAssassin

The most interesting thing of all this is that this thread is still standing. 🤨

I thought it would be long gone. Possibly it's survived because Andrew isn't actually on trial for anything.

@merrymelodies

No one is tarring them with the same brush. What they’re annoyed about is him being shielded by his family.

@Bunnyfuller Yes, it's wrong. Normal perhaps for a parent to want to protect their child but PA is no child. Obviously the RF wants to try to exert damage control over their elevated position in society (fast crumbling but that's another topic) but if PA had any decency or courage, he wouldn't try to hide behind his family and use his privileges for anything but to do good. He's apparently an arrogant, cowardly weakling who cares for no one but himself.

Au contraire, any judgement in her favour can and will be enforced in any country in the world where there exists the rule of law

Judgements in foreign civil courts can be enforced. It's more difficult and expensive but it can be done.

However to enforce a monetary award the person against whom the order is made needs to have assets.

Does PA have significant personal assets? I don't know. His mother does. His nephews have the money they inherited from Diana. Charles has personal wealth , although he doesn't own the Duchy of Cornwall. But Andy personally?

Anything held in a trust of which he is a beneficiary isn't a personal asset, although payments paid out to him are.

Does PA have significant personal assets?
Probably not, or he'd have paid Fergies debts himself.

William and Harry have money they inherited from their mother. Which was a concern for the RF as no other young Royals have had that amount of their own money.

[quote mathanxiety]@BoudecaBains, it's courts which have jurisdiction, not law suits.

In a civil case, the domicile of the petitioner is what matters, not wherever a respondent normally lives, or might have absconded to. If the domicile of the respondent was relevant, there would be nothing to stop ruthless respondents from fleeing to avoid civil cases.

Hence PA's lawyers' recent attempt to have the case thrown out in NY and presumably moved to Australia, where they allege VG has domicile.

In a criminal case, the location of the crime is what counts for jurisdiction unless interstate criminal activity is part of the indictment. Maxwell's criminal case was tried in federal court because her crimes involved interstate trafficking. The civil case against PA is not a criminal case.

He may yet be charged with criminal activity and extradited to face charges.[/quote]
Executing an extradition warrant on the son of the queen of the Commonwealth, that would be something worth seeing.
I genuinely hope it happens. I'll do it if nobody is up for it😂

A quick Google PA is worth about £60m so not exactly skint.

I think in 20 years time VG will look back and see so much wasted time. So much wasted money.

Wow, minimising at its finest.

The woman lost her adolescence to sex trafficking and you call her lifelong quest to find justice and peace "wasted time"?

How nice to be so blissfully ignorant that you can even imagine this.

@supermoonrising

The BBC interview was what happens when someone who has had his ass kissed his whole life comes to face to face with reality. Someone of huge privilege but at best average intelligence, foolishly believing that they can outsmart a genuinely clever journalist and the watching public.

Yes she knew exactly what she was doing and he just could not see it at all. He was even given second chances to make it a bit better which he just couldn't see. I have it taped and it gets worse the more you watch it. It's the entitled view that everyone will just believe his BS. I agree it's because he has never known any difference. Can't sweat. Literally within hours there are pictures of him sweaty in a night club in France surrounded by young women.

Prince Andrew’s lawyer, Andrew Brettler, has told the court that Giuffre’s agreement with Epstein provided “a general release of all claims against him and numerous other individuals and entities” and that Prince Andrew is “axiomatically among the releasees”.

Now this report from the Guardian from yesterday/today intrigues me. The lingustics are suggesting that Andrew isn't clearly exempted from further law suits brought by VG, but rather that it should be taken for granted ('axiomatically') that this is the case.

So maybe some men are named, but not him?

Just a thought after reading and re reading more about the case why is she -

Not naming and going after all if the other people she was offered to by JE and GM?

Why is it a civi case not a criminal case?

Why is she now in Australia?

How did she get so rich?

What were her parents doing about this? If she was taken did they report her missing? Try to get in touch?

Why didn't she come forward years ago? Her evidence was/is just as credible 8 years ago as it is now - so why now?

Why has no one else brought a case against PA if he had a reputation of liking young girls?

I'm not victim blaming before I get jumped on- so many questions....,,.,

I feel sorry for the queen- at her age and after the illness and death of her husband, will she live though it all?

@Merryweather80 it's all in the thread.

All these people saying "shagging a 17 yo is fine here"

I guess Epstein and Andrew and all their mates should have stuck to S.E. Asia tbh but they screwed up!

@Kennykenkencat

Virginia has already achieved a great deal. Andrew is basically under house arrest and will never return to his former life and position. The whole world knows what he has done and he has been public ally shamed.

Epstein and Maxwell have been put behind bars. Neither of them will be free to harm any girl ever again. The world is a safer place.

I think she can feel incredibly proud of her courage and tenacious pursuit of justice already.

[quote mathanxiety]@BoudecaBains, it's courts which have jurisdiction, not law suits.

In a civil case, the domicile of the petitioner is what matters, not wherever a respondent normally lives, or might have absconded to. If the domicile of the respondent was relevant, there would be nothing to stop ruthless respondents from fleeing to avoid civil cases.

Hence PA's lawyers' recent attempt to have the case thrown out in NY and presumably moved to Australia, where they allege VG has domicile.

In a criminal case, the location of the crime is what counts for jurisdiction unless interstate criminal activity is part of the indictment. Maxwell's criminal case was tried in federal court because her crimes involved interstate trafficking. The civil case against PA is not a criminal case.

He may yet be charged with criminal activity and extradited to face charges.[/quote]
@mathanxiety

I do recall that New York extended their deadline on filing civil cases against abusers and VG filed her case against PA only a few days before that deadline.

Also, I recall PA volunteering more than once to give prosecutors in New York any help they might need during their investigation of Epstein & Maxwell — but the prosecutors saying that they had been stonewalled every time they had reached out to PA. That he had been nothing but uncooperative at every turn, or not responding at all.

@KimikosNightmare

Sorry , what happened is Dershowitz initiated a defamation action against Giuffre because of abuse claims she was making about him and calling her a liar.

Giuffre is counter suing, also defamation.

Alan Dershowitz never met a rich guilty guy he didn’t fall in love with.

Claus von Bulow
OJ Simpson
Jeffrey Epstein
And on and on and on…

@Merryweather80

Yes you are exactly victim blaming.

VG is not on trial. The answers to those questions are irrelevant. They're also none of your business. And the fact that she is the focus of your (very loaded) questions smacks of '70s style rape culture.

VG was groomed. Her parents were groomed. That you don't understand this is your responsibility to put right.

@Merryweather80

Your questions are totally victim blaming.

What were her parents doing about this? If she was taken did they report her missing? Try to get in touch?

Surely you know that some parents just don't care?? If you were to read her history, you would know that she had lived on the streets at age 13, was abused by a family member, then abused again on the streets, she had lived in care, ... so this question does not apply to her parents.

Also some, just want the money and would think... oooh, well done, you've got yourself a good job there, now then, how much money can you give us?

MN is so comfortable in its assumptions at times. Like everyone who has parents who used to want to know where you were, what time you'd be home, and had you done your homework.

Why didn't she come forward years ago?
Read about the Farmer sisters. Honestly, if you did your research, you would know. They tried so so hard to report JE and GM to the FBI year nine years before they looked into it. Numerous women made reports. They were all ignored.

Why is it a civil case not a criminal case
See above. People bring civil cases because they are getting nowhere with a criminal case.

Asking why she is in Australia... well, why do you live where you do? What is the relevance of that question?

Why has no one else brought a case against PA if he had a reputation of liking young girls?
You do know who he is don't you?! Why wasn't Mountbatten exposed for liking young boys, why did the RF keep supporting Saville and Ball the paedophiles? PA is protected. End of.

Bloody hell... the BBC are working very hard this morning at polishing up the RF's reputation. They are banging on about the Platinum Jubliee and how wonderful it all is. It's not till June FFS.

It's the entitled view that everyone will just believe his BS. I agree it's because he has never known any difference.

This is nothing new and applies to so many privileged people. Boris Johnson being one. They think the Law and rules will never apply to them.

Apart from the victim blaming I'm so pleased with this thread, the contributions and comments are fascinating and the fact it's still up gives me some hope the tide is turning. I think it's incredibly poor taste to expect tax payers to pay for a big cap doffing, flag waving extravaganza given the last two years. I'd rather see that money given to the NHS or to restart surestart centres. Anything other than celebrating the corrupt mess that is the Royal family. People keep saying 'oh the poor Queen' but she's enabled PA and covered for him every step of the way. If she did put The Crown ahead of family she'd have bundled him into a plane to the US herself. They see us all as stupid plebs who shouldn't question their betters.

@Malariahilaria

Apart from the victim blaming I'm so pleased with this thread, the contributions and comments are fascinating and the fact it's still up gives me some hope the tide is turning. I think it's incredibly poor taste to expect tax payers to pay for a big cap doffing, flag waving extravaganza given the last two years. I'd rather see that money given to the NHS or to restart surestart centres. Anything other than celebrating the corrupt mess that is the Royal family. People keep saying 'oh the poor Queen' but she's enabled PA and covered for him every step of the way. If she did put The Crown ahead of family she'd have bundled him into a plane to the US herself. They see us all as stupid plebs who shouldn't question their betters.

Yep. So unbelievably naive to presume that the Queen and the rest of the RF are horrified on a moral level. Course they’re not. VG is scum to them. They will always always back their own, no matter how heinous their acts. They are only and only ever have been concerned about the Firm’s brand but I bet you anything that they still see and speak to Andrew - just not in public. Seriously, the end of the monarchy needs to happen. They are an immoral, criminal, of average or below intelligence, work-shy, arrogant and entitled bunch of people who see us all as nothing more than something nasty they’ve stepped in.

There was a thread earlier where it was asked if your child was in trouble with the law what would you do. Most people responded that they would do whatever they could do to help them, pay for best legal representation they could afford, wouldn’t turn their back on them etc

The Queen is not just any mother. She is supposed to be a figurehead to the nation. She is supposed to be the Head of the Church.
She has a duty to set an example. That should have started with teaching her son that hanging out with rich paedophiles and having sex with teenage girls paid for by others wasn’t an acceptable way to behave.
They have all been brought up entitled and arrogant. They think they’re owed a certain standard of living and deference at all times. It’s disgusting .

Yes, she does have a duty to set an example. I know I keep repeating it but 12 years ago she expressed 'concern' about her son's friendship with Epstein and also with his role as a Trade Envoy. This is on record.

Well.... what did she do about it?
Nothing.
Absolutely nothing. And this is why we are talking about this in these terms on this thread now.
12 years ago I had far more respect for the RF but now... it has evaporated because of how PA has been allowed to ride roughshod over all the advice he was offered. Why two of his key advisers resigned when he went ahead with the carcrash interview against what they advised.
Why... the Queen rubberstamps his behaviour by taking him to Church, him with a big grin on his face... just days after his involvement with Epstein blew up.
Why... and this is the worst one for me... the Queen awarding him the Knight of the Grand Cross... the highest possible honour for service to the Queen, in 2011, a month after Epstein and VG involvement by PA hit the headlines.
What does that say about our RF and the Queen in particular?

I know there are posters who are of the mindset you should support your family whatever they have done.... well... privately support OK, I sort of get it. But not go out your way to publicly praise and award medals. NO.

Why... and this is the worst one for me... the Queen awarding him the Knight of the Grand Cross... the highest possible honour for service to the Queen, in 2011, a month after Epstein and VG involvement by PA hit the headlines.

Yes this was particularly appalling