To be sick and tired of tired of people telling others to leave there DHs over silly things.

[LurkersConfessions]

I’ve been lurking on here for a few weeks now reading posts I do enjoy it and find the advice very good. However I’m getting a bit sick and tired of some posters telling OPs to “LTB”, kick out or even divorce their DH over minor things. Like an OP complaining about their DH of 10+years saying a rude comment and some of the replies are saying the OP needs to get in contact with their divorce lawyers it’s getting a bit ridiculous.

To be fair it’s not exclusively MN I see it with so many other women giving relationship advice. They are so quick to tell others to leave their OH for doing what is sometimes minor actions but would never do the same the their own OH if they did the exact same thing.

Meh. More women should leave when these apparent “minor” flag arise.

Because they are often the signs that the relationship is beginning to deteriorate and the respect is dwindling.

Me personally for instance would never tolerate my partner using derogative language towards me in an argument. I’m fine with “you’re being a dick” type comments if I am in fact being a dick (as we all are sometimes) but I certainly wouldn’t entertain things like “shut up you stupid bitch / fat cow”. I have a long term relationship and kids but I can tell you now I would end it over a comment like that.

When people use derogatory language towards a partner it tells you there is no respect and that the things said in anger have a root somewhere else.

So, actually I don’t think it’s a bad thing to suggest women raise their standards a bit. To have stronger boundaries and to demand and expect respect from their partners.

[quote NearlyAHoarder]@endofbluenight I agree, I posted in April and left in July and I was moving heaven and earth to get it done. People think that you're not moving quickly enough is there's no 72 hour update at the end of the thread to report new place to live, job, school places for DC, bank account, phone number! I did ALL of the above and it took months and I couldn't have gone any quicker.[/quote]
I dont think it is this at all. I think it is much more likely that lots of mumsnetters know the pattern. Once the situation has ‘blown over’ and op sees again that he is only abusive some of the time, and it is of course easier to stay than to change anything, that the woman may lose momentum. She might second guess herself. Everyone knows how had it is to leave. Some people want to keep the momentum going for op, help her to remember she is right, help her to continue to plan her way out.

If it ones then tell him it’s inappropriate. happens again, than yes I agree. LTB!

The thing is OP, in abusive relationships it's rarely that clear cut.

These men don't do something 'once'. It's subtle & continuous, in a way that's really hard to identify as a 'thing'.

Equally, they'll promise anything you want, and then do it anyway, but paint you as unreasonable, controlling, a bitch, not like any other wife.

You end up believing their narrative of you. Somehow too, they tap into your insecurities & deep rooted fears. My H never commented negatively about my appearance / body, quite the opposite. But he picked on my personality & character. No-one liked me, my family didn't care about me, I was worthless. He would provide examples that seemed cast-iron. These worked on me because I had always felt inadequate and insecure, deep down even tho on the surface, I seemed completely confident & assertive.

@NowEvenBetter

*their husbands Nah. Far, far too many women tolerate and accept and reproduce with absolute trash and inflict traumatic childhoods on their kids. The only acceptable level or instance of abuse is zero . Plenty of intelligent women use this site and can see the red flags a mile off.

You trying to police them, or get women to tolerate any degree of shit behaviour from a man is terrible. No one is going to leave their abuser due to words on a screen, but it could plant the seeds to them raising their standards and giving their kids a better life. We can hope.

I'm with you on this one. We should encourage women to raise their standards, not lower them

@LurkersConfessions

Clymene

I think if women telling other women their relationship is gash makes you feel uncomfortable, you should probably have a look at why that may be.

After reading through this thread bit more it has made me realise maybe reason why I don’t like the whole “LTB” is because I myself am a child of divorced parents. For a long time I wished they had thought for the marriage longer mainly because when the marriage had broken down it was during the most important part of my education and it pretty much ruined it for me.

My DMum was adamant she wanted out and had enough with my Dads crap. My dad claimed it didn’t want a divorce at the time and I remember being angry at my mum for just “letting him go”. As time went on Ive realised it was the right thing for my Dmum to do. She shouldn’t have been made to continue fighting save a marriage with a man’s who not worth fighting for. So many of us are made to do this and it needs to stop. We shouldn’t be made to feel guilty for kicking trash to the the curb. I apologise this thread comes across as me doing that.

I do still think LTB is sometimes used a bit to lightly and sometimes isn’t helpful. but can understand that the OPs shouldn’t be puttting up with that shit especially if it’s continues. If it ones then tell him it’s inappropriate. happens again, than yes I agree. LTB!

So maybe if your mum had ltb much earlier Things would have been better Maybe if she had posted on mn earlier on Or explored In therapy Instead of hanging on til you were in midst of education

Saying ltb might allow someone to see it as a possibility.
And think it through
It was counsellor asking g the question "what would happen if you left?" that made me see sense

No one is going to make the step because mn says so

"This may sound stupid, but reading MN has opened me up to the standards that many women do hold their partners to. Not the gushing 'my DP is amazing' threads that sometimes emerge but the way in which posters can articulate & demonstrate honest respectful relationships, where they can be brave enough (as it seems to me, though really they are just normal) to set boundaries, call out their OHs when needed & disagree with their partners without fear. "

I agree with this very much. You get so used to putting your own wants and needs into darkness you forget what they are. I can remember when my children were small and things were reasonably ok with my ex we were in a traditional set up where I was putting the tea ion the table and he would come home from work. He is an electrician and he would empty his pockets on to the kitchen work surface. Screws bits of stuff like that. And just leave it there. I didn't know if any of it was important. I found it hugely disrespectful. He thought I was being an utter nag and when we split said that I was always trying to start an argument. He perceived my need for him not to do this as me creating a problem. He could never see past this line of thinking. And yet he was great with the kids. He bought me nice presents. But he didn't listen to me at all and I started to forget who I was. Not having his crap, and I mean crap not his possessions in every corner of the house in my own place is a massive deal for me. I still to this day cannot understand how little it took for him to make it better for me and it resulted in him having an affair and destroying me and himself.

We should encourage women to raise their standards, not lower them

Yes. And still, so many women accept shit treatment by shit partners (and family, and employers). There's such a way to go, that having a flat 'you deserve better' still is likely to be predominantly true in most situations.

Everyone knows how had it is to leave. Some people want to keep the momentum going for op, help her to remember she is right, help her to continue to plan her way out
There are lots of people here who clearly have no idea how hard it is to leave, and no idea not everyone has the resources they do!
I was talking about the posters who attack women for not leaving. They are not helping women to plan a way out. Women who live in abusive relationships often have a continually high threat alert, they can be in a constant state of agitation, with everything inside them looking out for signs of threat and danger, and these include psychological threats.

So posters attacking OP for being a 'terrible mother' overwhelm someone in that state, meaning they have to leave to leave the thread to try to protect themselves psychologically.

This doesn't help them or their children. I really wish posters would stop doing this.

@anonanonanon123

Yep, I tend to think a lot of people on here are single and bitter or miserable and they want others to be too.

What a lovely post.

I've been married for over 20 years with 2 DC that I a really proud of. Our relationship works for us.

However, I grew up in a household governed by my DF toxic moods. I spent years learning how to read his moods so I might avoid getting clobbered. I saw the effect on me and my DB. Nobody should have to live in that environment. Nobody should have a sinking feeling when someone enters a room with "that look" on their face. Nobody should have to accept "I'm sorry I did x but if only you hadn't..."

Reality's post linked above is spot on. People have the right to safe, respectful, loving relationships. I want people to realise that they are allowed to get out and that a bad relationship doesn't make you a bad person - you can get out an live a better and more fulfilled life - and to do that sometimes you need to LTB.

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude great post! Well said.

@LurkersConfessions

I’m so tired of it that I wrote the word twice.

I just want to repeat it’s not really an attack on MN but more of our society in general. I personally have a friend who expect other peoples partners to live up to a ridiculous standard that her very own serial cheating “D”H has never and will never live up to.

(Also there instead of their.) I do think many people don't seem to understand that we can grow and change through our mistakes. I have behaved like a jealous twat in relationships, but thanks to an understanding partner, was able to ditch such nonsense and grow up.

Are men ever advised to LTB?

I posted a thread many moons ago about a minor irritation I had with (STB)DH. Virtually every reply was that he was abusive and I should LTB. Happy to report that we have been happily married for years. The irritating habit went away when he stopped being anxious about the impending arrival of our first DC.

I do think people on here love a pile on. One person will make a compelling argument that something is a ‘major red flag’ and everyone else just joins in.

@Abhannmor

Are men ever advised to LTB?

They have been on occasion. There aren't many men who post. There have also been cases where an abusive male partner has started posting on MN to try to remove MN as a support network for their female partner. So direct posts from men are rare and treated with caution. However, I have certainly seen posts where men have been told that they should get out of a relationship that appears abusive and I have also seen women posting about male family members who have been advised how to help that person as they appear to be in an abusive relationship.

Hard disagree with your first post, OP, though not your update. As others have said, most of the time it takes great courage to come on her and share that your SO is not treating you well. While most people have an off day where they get a bit snappy, that’s not what many of the women on here are talking about. They’re talking about long term patterns of systematic abuse that they have been conditioned to think of as normal, or catastrophic/violent actions that destroy trust and/feeling safe and loved.

It is not normal for people not to have access to money, or to be expected to do 90% of the workload, or be pressured into sex, or not be allowed to see their family or friends, or to be given the silent treatment for every perceived minor transgression. It is not normal to have to put up with affairs, or deadbeat dads, or men who think it’s ok to choke their partner. Yes, sometimes people do go a bit OTT with LTB, but in 90% of the scenarios on here, it would be the optimum outcome for the poor women who feel they have no other choice but to put up with this shit. The other thing is that, even if it doesn’t help the person who posts the problem it might a) make them feel less alone and know there’s a place where they can get a bit of support, and b) may help someone else in a similar situation. In every thread, in amongst the LTB, there will be someone with professional or experiential expertise who will be able to provide good advice on how to safely LTB, or recommend the right kind of counselling, or enable them to protect themselves a bit better or manage their partner’s behaviour better. Mumsnet is about getting a range of opinions, not just the ones that are realistic or practical right now, but ones that provide food for thought, and perhaps help in finding a way that can help them.

I’m definitely team “LTB”. And mostly it’s precisely BECAUSE I didn’t leave my ex when the small things started. With the benefit of hindsight, I should have left much earlier. My bullshit meter is now firmly at zero.

And frankly, lots of men these days seem to treat their partner as a surrogate mum/ wife-shaped appliance. Personally I’d rather send the message that if you mistreat me I’ll show you the door rather than wait to see if the shitty behaviour escalates.

@EarringsandLipstick

Thank you so much for your posts (here & on other threads) *@NearlyAHoarder*

Your insight is incredible, I really feel you are me, in my head, when you write! It's strangely comforting to know others felt the same as you.

In RL, nobody - nobody - understands (bar my counsellor). My DM gets some of it, and was incredibly helpful towards the end of the marriage when I opened up a bit, but her own approach to relationships isn't great, not healthy & these days she often says things like 'well, isn't it great he sees the boys occasionally / picks them up from school once in a blue moon / [insert low threshold of basic parenting] and does not get how I can still be affected and re counselling, asks 'when will you be fixed?'

Your points above about 'scapegoat energy' have really hit the spot too.

This thread has been helpful to me today, as I promise myself a more self-caring, self-accepting 2022'. Thank you 💐

@EarringsandLipstick

Great post, and I wish you a great 2022.

Yes I get the impression it's often a sister or other female relative who picks up on this first. But all the same caveats apply - accommodation, kids , money etc. Ltb is easier said than done whoever you are

Sorry the above is a reply to @ChazsBrilliantAttitude

I’m definitely team “LTB”. And mostly it’s precisely BECAUSE I didn’t leave my ex when the small things started. With the benefit of hindsight, I should have left much earlier. My bullshit meter is now firmly at zero.

Yes Yes Yes. This is me too. I feel so sad when I look back at my younger self and allll the shit I put up with. And the way I thought he wasn’t so bad when he was being “ok”.
My bullshit meter is now firmly at zero too. A red flag is a red flag.

I couldn't disagree with the opening post more. I haven't time to rtft now, will later, but wanted to post. I feel the absolute opposite and it actually saddens me so much. There are many posts about minor things, and it is absolutely obvious to experienced mumsnetters/women to read between the lines and realise this is a truly miserable relationship. Then you get people like the op saying 'men, huh, eyeroll', because they themselves have miserable relationships and are in denial wanting to believe it's normal. It makes me so sad. Far far too many women are in miserable relationships, and the more women who put up with it, the longer it will continue.

I said over annoying issues …..

If they can’t be discussed you just ignore or deal with it your own way. My family are not talkers over problems we just get on with things

Agree those claiming to care then turning on the op are bullies for not doing as they have told them - the advisor can so easily become the aggressor

There are many posts about minor things, and it is absolutely obvious to experienced mumsnetters/women to read between the lines and realise this is a truly miserable relationship.

This. And then you'll get people saying you're 'protecting' which maybe is true to a certain extent, but without people sharing their experiences with me I might still be in denial over my awful abusive marriage and still stuck in it, which would've been hugely detrimental it only to me but my DC.

Sometimes it's not one big event that spurs you to leave, rather death by a thousand cuts. Which is obvious to those who've experienced it, but not always obvious when you're living it. It certainly wasn't obvious to me, I remember how I minimised his behaviour, how he easily twisted it to make me doubt what had happened. MN has been a massive help to women like me, and continues to be even after the marriage is over as often an abuser doesn't just quit then.

Thank you @CharityDingle I think 2022 might be a great step forward!

LTB actually worked for me. It was only the honesty of MN that allowed me to think those thoughts myself , rather than family and friends who can be fearful of advising such a drastic thing when you might then not leave and it will be clear that they don't approve. Very glad I did LTB and very grateful for being able to discuss issues openly without hiding anything. If you don't like it, there are other boards.