To be sick and tired of tired of people telling others to leave there DHs over silly things.

[LurkersConfessions]

I’ve been lurking on here for a few weeks now reading posts I do enjoy it and find the advice very good. However I’m getting a bit sick and tired of some posters telling OPs to “LTB”, kick out or even divorce their DH over minor things. Like an OP complaining about their DH of 10+years saying a rude comment and some of the replies are saying the OP needs to get in contact with their divorce lawyers it’s getting a bit ridiculous.

To be fair it’s not exclusively MN I see it with so many other women giving relationship advice. They are so quick to tell others to leave their OH for doing what is sometimes minor actions but would never do the same the their own OH if they did the exact same thing.

The “go NC” crowd is even more extreme and ridiculous (although I suspect there’s a lot of overlap). There was one the other day where people were telling the OP to ditch her entire family because her brother didn’t invite her to NYE parties.

@welliesarefuntowear

There is a lot of advice on here that is designed to make women feel bad about their situation even if the probably would be happier if they LTB. This oh I feel sorry for your children. I find that genuinely upsetting to read. If you're in a situation which I have been where you genuinely have to leave then it takes absolutely everything you've got and I am still struggling to survive this. My ex isn't evil or even abusive but he made a series of extremely poor choices including an affair which wrecked our relationship beyond repair. I just had no idea how to fix it. The man he is now is a far easier person two years down the line. I do think people can change. A friend of mine, she discovered he'd husband had been unfaithful with many women. She chose to stay. They seem happy. Sometimes it does work out for the best.

I don’t know, I do sometimes feel sorry for the children. My mum convinced herself that we kids were better off with parents who were together. Instead she’s tied herself to a man who’s been rude to her for 30 years, given us kids a pretty confused idea of what constitutes a good relationship. They’re both bitter alcoholics now which comes with its own set of problems for us as adults. But she tells herself we had a better life because they stayed together. I think sometimes it can be useful to remind parents that staying together for the kids can be more harmful than splitting.

It’s either A

Oh, and if you can prove there's a woman ever on MN who left a happy, respectful and loving marriage between equals after being told to by mners because of a single unimportant 'silly' thing - I'll donate £5000 to women's aid.

I see where you're coming from and I also feel it a bit. On the other hand, there was a question asking " what was the final straw for you" sort of thing the other day and it's clear that so, so so many women will soldier on, martyring themselves in horrific abusive relationships. I don't know how much of the " leave him now" advice is reasonable.

@NowEvenBetter

*their husbands Nah. Far, far too many women tolerate and accept and reproduce with absolute trash and inflict traumatic childhoods on their kids. The only acceptable level or instance of abuse is zero . Plenty of intelligent women use this site and can see the red flags a mile off.

You trying to police them, or get women to tolerate any degree of shit behaviour from a man is terrible. No one is going to leave their abuser due to words on a screen, but it could plant the seeds to them raising their standards and giving their kids a better life. We can hope.

This.

Healthy relationships are able to express a full range of emotions.

I went on an excellent training course where the trainer (a leader in the field of attachment and trauma) asked us all if we've ever told our partners that we hate them. He said that if we've never felt hate and expressed that we hate in the moment then we're not in a healthy relationship.

We should hate our partners sometimes. We should be able to express to them how much they are annoying us. Then the humorous understanding and acceptance can occur.

I do think we can be quick to forget that we are all human and flawed. Sometimes we can say hurtful things on purpose to hurt our partners, sometimes we can all act in controlling ways, sometimes we can get so bogged down in arguments that our acceptance for the other person diminishes.

MN can be so helpful to women in abusive relationships. But not with acceptance of another flawed human. Acceptance, understanding and humour is what I believe a marriage needs. That isn't to say someone should put up with abuse, I just don't believe one argument that has got out of hand is abusive. I have told my dh to fuck off. He deserved being told to fuck off. That isn't great behaviour on my part, but it wasn't abusive. Technically I took my frustrations out on him in an unhealthy way, but there's no systematic abuse where I've made him feel less then, or controlled him, made him feel worthless. More radical honesty is needed in relationships so resentments don't build. You are allowed to have an argument in a relationship without it being abusive.

What i hate, which to be fair you don't see so much these days (i've been around since 2006) is the habit of dog-piling on the women who continue to post, clearly NOT ready to leave yet.. because they've had the audacity not to leave the previous occasions they've posted about their spouse/OH.

It took me years to leave mine, i knew what he was doing was wrong, but i kept believing he could change.. and he made all the right noises, counselling, anger management.. i left once, went back.. it took me another 7 years to leave the second time.

Its not as easy as 'LTB' and i just wish the posters here wouldn't withdraw their support because they don't get the immediate response, which is what happened with me.

Yes my ex is a dick, yes he was emotionally/physically abusive.. i should have left him long, long before, but leaving him without the support of the forum because i didn't do it in their pre-agreed time scale was a lot bloody harder.

Its why when i post a 'ltb' i try and temper it with knowing how fucking hard it is.

There are a lot of women here with a lot of experience. They can spot the signs that someone is in a bad relationship. OP, I suggest you read the principles of a successful marriage by Gottman. He has something like an 80% success rate of predicting whether a relationship will survive or fail based on watching a 15 minute video of them discussing something they disagree on (like household chores), even if they are loved up newly weds. The warning signs are not over the issue being disagreed on, but over the way the couple are handling it.

And really, the take away message from the Relationships Board is not that too many women are leaving men at the drop of a hat, but that they have stayed with shit men because they haven't been able to read the signs that this relationship is a bit shit till way too late.

I do wish however that posters would have more understanding that not all women have the financial or practical means to leave a relationship without creating another set of extremely challenging life circumstances. Some women are making difficult choices to stay and they deserve support too, and certainly more than being scolded if they don't LTB.

I guess what I am saying is that we need more education and awareness of what a bad relationship looks like, and not just what criminally abusive relationships look like.

MN was a lifeline for me too!!!!

I didn't LTB because it was an extended family member and it was a few years ago, but my God do I have better boundaries all round

And I was a silent lurker. I never posted a thing during my rough time, but I absorbed the advice slowly

Thank you MN posters who are kind enough to to post in order to help remove the scales from our eyes when it's needed

I had no sense of myself left.

Me too. It's 8 years on. As we had v small DC at the time, he's still able to exercise control. But less, of course.

But I'm only now beginning to get some sense of myself. To stop blaming & hating myself. To set higher standards for how I should be treated. I've been left really unsupported by my family (who are broadly good people & we're close. But they have been shockingly disinterested & uninvolved. They just don't get it), I've thrown myself into work at huge cost to me & my kids, and have put up with really shite treatment there.

I'm finally progressing my divorce. I feel guilty & stupid I didn't do it sooner - but I try to remind myself that I simply couldn't

I do feel a shift in myself that I can now prioritise and value myself. But it's very early days in that. For nearly 25 years (we met when I was 20) this man controlled me and eroded any sense of self. I feel like 2022 will see change, real change.

@Liz1tummypain

I see where you're coming from and I also feel it a bit. On the other hand, there was a question asking " what was the final straw for you" sort of thing the other day and it's clear that so, so so many women will soldier on, martyring themselves in horrific abusive relationships. I don't know how much of the " leave him now" advice is reasonable.

This is a good point. The last straw is the last straw but if you told people about that last straw in isolation they might think you'd left for a silly reason. My x wanted to just earn the money and he wanted me to run a creche, launderette, hotel and restaurant. But I had to do it to his high standards. I wanted to buy a bigger saucepan once and he didn't sanction the expense. I was standing there in Robert Dias, asking for a saucepan and he said no. I think I did realise, I am a slave in that moment.

I agree OP. While there is an awful lot of very depressing threads on here, there is also an awful lot of very black and white thinking.

I believe the reason is due to the fact that the argument is based on the posters opinion so it’s fairly normal behaviour.

For instance, if Sandra said her husband hit their son I would say LTB because that is something that I myself, would absolutely not tolerate, where Kimberley might not be happy about her kids being hit by their father, may tolerate it. My husband could have an affair and I forgive him, but that’s something Sandra would absolutely not do, whilst I would but not tolerate my kids being hit.
It’s opinions and what people would and wouldn’t tolerate, so of course you will get people say LTB.

The problem is, nobody can tell a whole situation from one post (even if the OP gives details).

When I was ill with depression and anxiety I was a bitch to DP sometimes. He stood by me and I'm much better now, things are better than ever now I'm getting the help I need. If he'd posted on here, and I was the male partner, people would have said LTB and there's every chance I wouldn't be here now.

Also people have a talent for leaving out their part in the events leading up to whatever they're posting about.

Of course, some people are absolute dickheads and should be left. But on the whole LTB does seem to be the wrong answer.

How about the shocking notion that some people are with men who wouldn’t say the same sort of thing at all?

Well I’m sure one of the OPs thought the same thing before their OHs said the comments which led them to put the post about it as well.

I’m not trying to excuse a lot of Mens awful behaviour. Just calling out the fact that are are some who expect other women in their relationships to hold up to a different standard they would never do in their own.

@NoSquirrels

I was thinking if some of those posters would leave their own DH if they said the same sort of thing.

How about the shocking notion that some people are with men who wouldn’t say the same sort of thing at all?

This is also such a good point.

This may sound stupid, but reading MN has opened me up to the standards that many women do hold their partners to. Not the gushing 'my DP is amazing' threads that sometimes emerge but the way in which posters can articulate & demonstrate honest respectful relationships, where they can be brave enough (as it seems to me, though really they are just normal) to set boundaries, call out their OHs when needed & disagree with their partners without fear.

I don't know if I'll have another relationship I really hope I might. But I feel grateful to have learnt a lot about functional relationships through MN

@EarringsandLipstick it's a long road to getting your self back.

I'm 14 years on and I feel that i stalled a lot in the early years. That stage where you obsess over what made him behave the way he did, I got stuck there and didn't move on to the next phase, asking myself why I accepted that for a long time.

Right now my project for January is to work my way through Kristen Neff Phd and Christopher Germer's work book on self-compassion.

I hope it's going to help me accept myself. I am doing ok but I still think that unfortunately there is something I carry around with me. Most people, 90% of people don't capitalise on it, but even in my extended family I am unfortunately emitting some scapegoat energy and I have been ejected from groups at work and in my wider family.

Something about my increased confidence but combined with residual radar/wariness to covert narcissism can put you at risk of the the covert narc in a group!

So. Working on overcoming my scapegoat energy right now. I will do it. I have been scapegoated for the last time.

I always think it's worth the OP'S of those threads reading reality's excellent pinned post: Right, listen up everybody. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/698029-Right-listen-up-everybody?msgid=14219935#14219935

I don't think I can ever recall a woman being advised to question her relationship (and that's what LTB is shorthand for) when the guy is a straight up bloke who forgot to wash up his mug before going to bed. It's always a pattern. The 'one off' comments are a symptom of a pattern of behaviour.

Like others have said, the bar is shockingly low for many men. And many OPs finish a long post laying out examples of lazy, entitled, abusive behaviour with 'but he's a good dad'.

I think if women telling other women their relationship is gash makes you feel uncomfortable, you should probably have a look at why that may be.

It's often repeat posters advising others to LTB at the drop of a hat.

I slammed (and I mean slammed) the car boot on my husband's head accidentally once, he shouted "you dickhead!"
Ten minutes later we were both laughing our heads off. We've been together 14 years and are very happy together. Yet so many posters on here say if your partner swears or raises their voice at you you should leave instantly. It's weird.

Whilst I doubt anyone has done it JUST because internet randoms told them to, it does open your eyes somewhat when you realise you're actually not crazy/psycho/whatever, and it IS in fact your DP/DH who's doing a number on your self esteem and confidence.

My own thread about exh 10 years ago had a lot of LTB comments. I didn't, because I just couldn't at that time. But I found that writing it all down, seeing the shocked comments on what I was living with on a daily basis, made me fully realise how abusive he was and no, I wasn't going mad and should leave - which I did when I could. Not because someone told me to, but because having seen it all written down the scales fell from my eyes and I realised how much I'd minimised his behaviour. It helped me immensely.

However, I fully agree that there are some really quite trivial things that get a LTB response, but I do wonder if there's a touch of lightheartedness in them tbh, or sarcasm.

What annoys me more is when posters give advice/say LTB and then get annoyed when OP doesn't seem to be complying!

@NearlyAHoarder my false narrative was “I’m just a very private person” - justifying to myself why I didn’t tell friends and family what exh was really like. No, I didn’t want them to know that my marriage was shit and ex was nasty and abusive.

I do agree sometimes that posts are heavy on the LTB and light on advice as to how to go about it- but usually someone comes along with useful practical advice.

PeeAche Thats awful ,please dont take posters comments so much to heart.(Nothing on here should make you cry) Second (and first) marriages require patience and hard work . Just because one RL didnt work out doesnt mean a second one with someone totally different will end the same way! Just enjoy your lovely children (not mistakes!) and realise that some people posting arent in a perfect RL anyway (Who is FFS)!

Women are so conditioned to be kind, work hard at their relationship, accept their loss of financial earnings, capability to save, their loss of respect in the relationship they're now stuck in because of their children, their loss of earnings, savings, and most of all, their loss of freedom that Thank Goodness there is ONE PLACE where the pendulum swings in the other direction and doesn't tell a woman to swallow back down her own need for freedom and respect

This. It is never just one rude comment. There is always a pattern of behaviour. Certain behaviours are known to lead to worse behaviours. Having strong boundaries early on is crucial. There are many posts this past few weeks from women early on in relationships noticing shitty behaviour and being unsure what to do. Only once. Only a couple of times. He is great the rest of the time. Ideal boyfriend when he isn't drunk and being abusive. Being firm with boundaries and self-respect at this point when there are no ties is ideal.

Age doesnt being wisdom, your distance from the problem does. It is easier to spot and know how to react when you are out of the situation and not clouded by misguided feelings.

So, YABVU. Society’s expectations of men are on the floor. Having a man who is an equal partner in the home or an equal parent is so far beyond many people’s experience it leaves them thinking abusive or lazy men are the standard
And expecting anything more is unreasonable. Let’s leave the higher expectations on mumsnet alone. Let's have one space where a father living with his children, acknowledging their existence and feeding them so they can survive isn't considered the gold standard of fatherhood.

Yep, I tend to think a lot of people on here are single and bitter or miserable and they want others to be too.