AIBU to want to start my own 'working class Mumsnet'?

[shoplifteroftheworld]

I see so many topics and conversations on here that just don't relate to my own life and experiences. Lots of well off women talking about their recent purchases from Boden or Uniqlo or some other place I can't afford to shop. Chat about dinner parties and holidays abroad. I'd like a site for mums and women on lower incomes as this site can leave a lot of us feeling left out of certain conversations.

Haven’t read the full thread, but I agree op, it would be good to have a subsection called low income families or something. I’m doing ok now, but 10 years ago when I started using mumsnet I was really struggling financially and found some posters really upset me with their ignorant comments.

I guess if that’s how you feel you will just have to go ahead but that’s sort of missing the point in my opinion. Surely it’s not about what divides us but what unites us?

I like the variety. I feel that I've been exposed to views and opinions from many more political standpoints, economic circumstances, parts of the country, and ages than I have on any other message board.

I always find mnet massively variable. There are threads full of people saying you are rich if you earn over 30k, threads where everyone seems to have 6 figure incomes.

I agree, all sorts on here, depends on how you view the world I guess, if through a narrow prism you only see what you want to see

non drivers are hated.On mumsnet.

Not true but there are things people say that annoy. 1) saying you "don't" drive when what you mean is you can't drive i.e. have no license (I appreciate some people can drive but don't, that's not who I'm talking about). These are the people who are often dismissive of the importance of it as a skill, and when questioned it emerges they rely on many drivers in their life and don't even realise it.

Also where I live there are a lot of people who started life with nowt who have made millions in construction or growing their own business. So you can't make assumptions about anyone.

@DeepaBeesKit I don’t drive because I can’t drive. It is a useful life skill. But after years of driving lessons, it was apparent that I was a danger to others on the road. 99% of the time it’s not an issue. I can use public transport: and bought a house with excellent transport links. It would be really useful to drive, I agree, but many don’t drive even when they have a license as they are not confident or competent drivers. And to be honest, there are loads of people on the road who are terrible drivers who shouldn’t be on the road

YANBU OP.
Before joining MN I would have said I don't care what class someone is in. But the sheer snobbery and judgements of working-class people on here have astounded me.
Even some of the comments on here like go to Netmums then Hun.
It makes me want to join Class War (do they still exist?) and spray paint Eat The Rich on the windows of the Joules shop.

First off there was one its called netmums not sure if its still about but I used that when I had mine it was the only place you could talk about formula without the breastappo getting involved/arsey.

and secondly you could just try posting here, I am single mum on full benefits raised in a council place, now in a private landlord place.

@LondonQueen

Also didn't realise that working class women can't shop at Boden or host dinner parties? Do you have to specify your income to shop at Boden, I don't remember doing so...

i dont know why anyone shops there the dresses all look like grandmas curtains.

i am on benefits and I shop at uniqlo, I wasnt aware I wasnt meant to be in there, guess I'd better go back to primark and buy cloths for half the price that fall apart within 3 months.

Shop wherever you want, no one cares. What people care about is the assumption that something is cheap if it costs £30 or £40.

Why are people obsessed with boden. It’s literally only good for under 8s. The women’s clothes look like oversized kids clothes. Funky knitted cardi. Nope

@Bluesarestillblue they do petite sizes! not a lot of brands do! having said that, i only have 2 dresses from there. My favourite brand at the moment is gudrun sjoden which is £££ but I buy second hand and sale items.

@Blueeyedgirl21

Why are people obsessed with boden. It’s literally only good for under 8s. The women’s clothes look like oversized kids clothes. Funky knitted cardi. Nope

Under 8s? only if you have a whole gaggle of kids to pass it down to, the speed they grow out of clothing, all my kids stuff comes from primark except the school uniform that came from asda, except the last one two they came from M&S because the council keep giving me vouchers

@Blueeyedgirl21

Why are people obsessed with boden. It’s literally only good for under 8s. The women’s clothes look like oversized kids clothes. Funky knitted cardi. Nope

I agree 😬 like overgrown toddler clothing

I'll join your working class group !

@DeepaBeesKit

non drivers are hated.On mumsnet.

Not true but there are things people say that annoy. 1) saying you "don't" drive when what you mean is you can't drive i.e. have no license (I appreciate some people can drive but don't, that's not who I'm talking about). These are the people who are often dismissive of the importance of it as a skill, and when questioned it emerges they rely on many drivers in their life and don't even realise it.

I expect that lot of people can't afford to drive. It's expensive - driving lessons, car, insurance, maintenance etc etc.

I don't shop at Boden or Uniqlo, but just had a quick look at the websites.

Uniqlo has many jumpers and dresses under £25, and some under £20, not even in the sale. These are H&M prices. Aside from perhaps Primark, where on earth are people shopping that is cheaper than that?

Boden isn't really my style, but I prefer it to Uniqlo, where the dresses all appear to be boring shapeless sacks that would suit nobody. Boden dresses look like they are cut to flatter a more mature figure, which is why I suspect that they are popular.

I grew up on a council estate in a NE pit village (working class) and got a degree, became a teacher, married a University lecturer ( middle class) but I am still me. I am not defined by labels.

I want to join CraicNet!

The ignorance in this thread is depressing. £20-£25 an item is out of reach for many. Comparison to H&M prices as if everyone just simply knows H&M is cheap... do people genuinely think those on low incomes are clothing their families in H&M? I certainly can't afford to shop there and I'm not on the bread line.

And another PP on this thread thinks £10 an item for baby/toddler clothes, and even better at £2-£3 per sale item is an absolute bargain and no-one has an excuse not to shop at John Lewis/Boden/whatever. Meanwhile I buy second hand bundles that work out pennies per item. I feel posh when I buy new baby clothing in Primark or George!

Oh and don't get me started on another PP whose family members are on "below minimum wage" yet "willing" to spend more on clothes and opt for natural fabrics while living in a 600k house. Sorry but all the will in the world doesn't afford poor people expensive clothing. And apparently someone only on a few hundred pounds a month travels to London regularly, wears lovely H&M outfits, buys lovely birthday presents, can travel abroad during the pandemic, go by taxi everywhere, all of which is paid out of pocket and no debt, while living in an expensive city which she laughs off as not even that expensive. It's sheer ignorance to think that these people, who supposedly roll their eyes at claims of food insecurity in this country, are representative of the "bottom 10%". Meanwhile in the UK, 400,000 children don't have a bed to sleep in and 2.5 million people received help from a food bank this past year. But sure, it's all exaggerated.

I do know that class =/= income by the way before people fall over themselves to provide links and educational resources, but it is true that generally most poor people are working class and wealthy people are middle/upper class, with people on average incomes split between working and middle class. Yes there are people who don't fit neatly and I am one of them, but let's not act like it's the world's biggest fucking mystery why many working class people can probably not afford to shop at Boden or Joules no matter how much you protest your whole family earn £3 an hour while claiming benefits and still manage to buy £35 dresses.

I'm not even going to comment on the number of people who think they're so clever sneering about Netmums.

Maybe I ruined the tone of the thread, but it's painful for me to read this ignorance and keep my mouth shut, especially as all of it is proving OP's point entirely.

Anyway, I do like the idea of a section on Mumsnet for low income families suggested by a PP.

@Freecuthbert I did reiterate that my MIL's house was bought in 1997 and then remortgaged to pay her ex out..this does mean that she has an advantage over younger people paying private rent. Hence while her income is really low and when you put the figures in IFS, it does come out as bottom 10% of the country. On paper she is much wealthier than me and DH because I have a £330k mortgage and she has a lot of equity in a £750k house (this is a 3 bed terrace in London btw so nothing fancy and when it was bought, it was right next to a drug dealer)...but from a cash flow perspective, there is more cash coming in for us and that is generally what influences spending decisions. It's also why someone who rents with a higher income is also more able to spend more on clothes as there could possibly be more money left after rent. I did say that my MIL may be out of touch with the cost of living for younger people who were not as lucky to buy a London house for 100k (though she still has a mortgage of a few hundred pounds a month). Also my MIL has never paid for childcare in her life despite having 4 kids, she just worked from home while looking after them; and I think these are the two big contributers- most working class jobs are in person and so childcare is needed and if the mum is a single parent, then childcare is needed which erodes any disposable income.. she also doesn't have a car (I can often get a Uber for cheaper than bus fare for two where I live using discount codes) and public transport is very accessible and she is lucky to have her health. A lot of poverty is exacerbated by ill health.

People's financial circumstances are not straightforward.1 thing about my SIL is that she is single. She has no dependents. She was doing a degree and qualified for maintenance loans and grants but then claimed UC after graduating for about a year. When she got her unpaid internship, she also qualified for grants from the organization but of course as the grants are paid later, she still had to pay for the air fares and taxi and covid tests out of her savings. I do wonder how she manages! But we have lent her a total of £1500 for the past few months (we converted the money for her as she is having problems with currency exchange) and she has always managed to pay us back even if there was some delay. I hope that means she is managing well!

I am not saying this is representative of all people of low incomes. I mean, firstly, what do you mean by 'shop at boden'. If you buy a dress there every week at full retail price, I bet a lot of women on £100k probably can't afford that if they are also paying childcare and a big mortgage. If you buy on sale very rarely, that's a different story... People can also own fewer clothes, my MIL has been known to wear her dresses until it gets dirty.. my DH has a friend who is so cash strapped he is living with his grandma in an assisted living 1 bed flat but he wears a suit everyday! A nice looking one too. He is religious and everyone in his community dresses that way, most of the men don't have jobs. His suits are probably more expensive than any Boden dress I have ever bought (I only buy on sale;so far I have bought 2; I have 3 joules dresses). How does he manage it? I have no access to his accounts; all I can say is that not everyone on low incomes would buy their entire wardrobe from the supermarket.

@Freecuthbert I am always saying I can't afford a car.. but to be fair, there are people on national minimum wage who have a car. There are probably people on UC with cars. Our disposable income is probably higher. What I mean is that I do not value a car enough (+ I live in London and have to pay tube fares to go to work) to pay the £2k annual costs that an average UK motorist spends on his/her car (people always underestimate the costs and never factor in depreciation). Maybe if I was a multimillionaire, £2k would be like £200 to me and maybe I would get a car but for now I prefer to overpay my mortgage (which is hard enough, I overpay by £1k per month and it has only gone down to £308k from £334k ). Slow and steady I suppose. Also, I was even more convinced of it after my DH's manager who is a director in an investment bank went car free, she said she tried taking Ubers whenever she liked instead of driving and it worked out cheaper! So i thought it was even more unjustifiable for me to get a car...

But I don't think that people on Mumsnet shouldn't talk about cars just because I can't afford a car.

@onlychildhamster
Genuinely, why is it so hard for you to actually admit that many people simply cannot afford good quality/expensive/certain brands of clothes? Do you really think someone on the absolute bones of their arse is swanning around in £100 suits? Perhaps this man owned these suits prior, perhaps they were gifted to him, who knows. Perhaps if he's working full time and not contributing to rent and bills at his relative's, all of his income is now disposable income. But really, I'm surprised this grandmother has been allowed to move a young relative into her assisted living flat as there's usually lots of rules around this. I hear of people inheriting these flats from late parents/grandparents and yet still not allowed to live there.

Yes I am aware that people can own fewer clothes, I am one of them! But it's ignorance if you think poor people are simply choosing to buy lots of clothes for the fun of it instead of fewer nice quality pieces, when they are often only buying the amount they need in the first place, and some of these people have 0 leftover in the budget for clothes after paying the rent, bills and food.