Smoking in pubs, free speech, having a laugh

[Wannalivewithcommonpeople]

Aibu to miss all this? The relaxed, laid back FUN of the 90’s to maybe maybe late 2010
ish?
I don’t smoke or take drugs anymore, hell I haven’t been able to drink in 21 months, due to long covid, but sat here watching 90’s & 2000’s music videos whilst Dh takes toddler out and thinking of the past.
Aibu to just bloody miss the simplicity and fun and to hate these times?

That's what people wanting Free Speech means to you, is it?

In my experience, people who bemoan the lack of opportunity for "free speech" and "having a laugh" want to be allowed to be racist, homophobic and/or misogynistic in public. I can't think of any exceptions.

Freedom of speech is still pretty evident in the UK: look at how disrespectful of the government, police, etc., the average conversation is. However, tolerance of talk that is deliberately offensive to people of a different ethnicity, sexuality, sex/gender has reduced, and I think that's a good thing. People who insist they aren't allowed to "have a laugh" are invariably complaining that they're not allowed to laugh at people for being non-white/foreign/queer/women.

@OakRowan

What do you mean free speech, you want to be casually racist/sexist/homophobic/offensive in public? That's not the good old days.

Don't be daft that's not what she means and you know it

That's what I was wondering. You can still speak freely - just not as offensively as in the past

Right, yeah. So let’s see what offensive stuff people have been ripped to shreds over:
-only women have cervixes. Keir Starmer tells Rosie Duffield that she shouldn’t be allowed to say that.

• women shouldn’t have to call their rapist a woman in court - JK Rowling gets hauled over the coals for this.
• women exist as a sex class and need rights/ protections - Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock, Rosa Freedman, the list is endless.
• FGM should be eradicated - Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie gets slammed because she says that victims of FGM are female.

Yes, sure, nothing to see here at all. Meanwhile let’s celebrate that male rapists and pedophiles are allowed in women’s prisons if they claim to have a female identity and that anyone who has concerns about this is likely to lose their job if they say anything.

Haven't RTFT.
I know what you mean, OP. I was watching Little Britain the other day. 15 years ago it was considered funny and I really liked it. Was sad when it got pulled from Netflix. I don't think it was offensive.
I also remember things about university, i.e the huge pub crawls when you used to write all over each others t-shirts and get a wristband for 10p shots of vodka. It just wouldn't be allowed to happen now.

Meeting in Topshop to buy a new outfit and it being as exciting was the night out.

And I liked the odd cigarette in a pub even though it stunk. It's not a crime.

It just doesn't seem the same anymore. A lot changes in nearly 20 years. Young people prefer WiFi and Instagram. I don't get it.

But you’ve just proved there is free speech because those people you mentioned have been able to say what they have. The actions of others that followed were criminal offences and should be prosecuted for criminal action. If we didn’t have free speech, then the person speaking would face criminal action.

Grumpy old woman here who knows exactly what you mean OP.

So much has changed and I get giddy and anxious trying to navigate the current world..... we're on the alternative scene (aged Goths) and we hang out with people aged from 18 to 50s..... some nights out are like navigating a minefield what with the proud declarations of pronouns and gender / sexuality fluidity...... I spend alot of time smiling brightly and "being nice" and thinking but last week you were x / y / z and why do you think I need to know you're now Pansexual because I'm not remotely in your dating pool due to be old enough to be almost your Grandmother and happily in a long term relationship..... wouldn't dream of being offensive but honestly the shoehorning of it all into every subject and the visible bristling in case one might say something on the "wrong side of history" makes for rather brittle social interactions....

I was at tech drama college in 89/90 doing backstage and for the two year course we rolled from college to pub and back pretty seamlessly..... at 40 I went back to Uni to upgrade my qualifications in the same field. There were about 70 on the course, I was the oldest woman, and there was one boy who co-incidentally I knew through my sons. We kind of formed an alliance being the odd ones out. In the first week we announced our intention to go to the Student Union bar at lunchtime and you'd have thought we'd suggested kicking kittens into traffic.,...

Currently planning our quiet new years at home because DP can't risk having to miss work if he picks up Covid or is a close contact at our local haunt. We don't wanna be grown ups. I know it's not quite the same but it resonates. My carefree bone is ossifying at a rate of notts..... ah me, the good old days may not have been perfect, but some of it definitely was.

RiP my miss-spent youth!!

People have lost their jobs! And they have been arrested!

@OakRowan

What do you mean free speech, you want to be casually racist/sexist/homophobic/offensive in public? That's not the good old days.

Some groups take offence at anything and everything. We have lost the art of discriminating between the offensive and the non offensive, of making a judgement. I am sick of grovelling apologies from celebs for something they said 15 years ago. I loathe the self righteous prats who comb through other people's social media hoping to find something UNFORGIVEABLE, UNPARDONABLE, AND SENSATIONAL that they can pass to the tabloids

@GCAndProud

That's what I was wondering. You can still speak freely - just not as offensively as in the past

Right, yeah. So let’s see what offensive stuff people have been ripped to shreds over:
-only women have cervixes. Keir Starmer tells Rosie Duffield that she shouldn’t be allowed to say that.

• women shouldn’t have to call their rapist a woman in court - JK Rowling gets hauled over the coals for this.
• women exist as a sex class and need rights/ protections - Maya Forstater, Kathleen Stock, Rosa Freedman, the list is endless.
• FGM should be eradicated - Chimamanda Ngozie Adichie gets slammed because she says that victims of FGM are female.

Yes, sure, nothing to see here at all. Meanwhile let’s celebrate that male rapists and pedophiles are allowed in women’s prisons if they claim to have a female identity and that anyone who has concerns about this is likely to lose their job if they say anything.

Exactly so. Well said.

This extreme reaction to something that is objectively incontestable is something that has only happened in the past 5-7 years or so. It didn’t used to be like that.

Right, because no one was ever threatened or killed for saying 'objectively incontestable' facts like 'black people should have the same rights as white people' or 'women are not the property of men'.

In terms of free speech, I took that in the spirit of you could say stupid stuff and noone remembered it the next morning. No posting on twitter and getting the sack 10 years later, no phone recording you saying anything so you have to come out with a grovelling apology and knowing your promotional opportunities will be compromised.

There are probably a few embarrassing photos of me in someone's loft in a box marked 'leaving ball - uni' but the likelihood of them ever seeing the light of day is minimal thank feck.

But you’ve just proved there is free speech because those people you mentioned have been able to say what they have.

Well, 'been able to say what they have' is a loose term isn't it? She was 'able to say what she has' and was then hounded out of her job for it. No, she wasn't murdered by the state or sent to prison for what she said (although there has been a lot of talk of 're-education' for people with impure opinions on the issue) but how low are we setting the bar here?

Sorry, I can’t really comment as I don’t know what is in peoples contracts? What were the reasons given for the sacking?

The fact posters on this thread immediately sprang to the assumption that the OP was getting misty eyed about not being able to be offensive as opposed to not having to worry about anything being taken out of context is exactly proof of her point. The internet has enabled po-faced miseries to live out their authoritarian fantasies.

I think people were just curious as to what people might want to say now that they couldn’t say in 1990. I can think of a few things that people said to me in work in the late 2000s (sexist), that would definitely be frowned upon now. I’m personally glad it is seen as unacceptable. Maybe if someone gave an example it might be clearer?

@Bonnealle

Sorry, I can’t really comment as I don’t know what is in peoples contracts? What were the reasons given for the sacking?

Kathleen Stock left her job of almost 20 years at the University of Sussex because she of a sustained campaign against her on campus from students. They stood in balaclavas wielding smoke bombs and put up posters and signs all over the campus saying 'Stock Out'. They also had an Instagram page aimed at harassing her too.

Her crime was that she wrote a book called 'Material Girls' in which she critically discussed gender ideology.

The fear of cancellation can suddenly feel very real if you are a small business owner and use Social media for promotion....

I once did a very innocuous post on my business page about how I'd been procrastinating about some admin tasks, I put up a video from that chap who photographs mice in houses and used it as an example of my distraction vices, and also mentioned I'd been looking on Mumsnet.

Right off the bat I get a post from a very right on friend / customer - "Mumsnet - that well known hotbed of transphobia"...... after I'd stopped sweating I just replied with "But how cute are the Mice????" And it all went quiet.....

I also had a non binary customer / friend who tried to engage me on the subject of JK Rowling in the shop by saying they were going to throw some Harry Potter on the fire when they got home because it was cold..... I couldn't say a goddamn thing I wanted to, so showed them new stock - they then tried again, asking directly for my opinion, and all I could do was mumble that it was all very complicated and I didn't feel qualified to comment while hating myself .....

And this was about two years ago I think.....principles or livelihood ? Not such an easy choice sometimes.....

Well that does seem very harsh that she was sacked for other people doing horrible things, I can’t see how HR cleared that. I only hope that some lawyers see this as an opportunity to go for the employer. That is completely unacceptable.

@Bonnealle

Sorry, I can’t really comment as I don’t know what is in peoples contracts? What were the reasons given for the sacking?

Lawyer Allison Bailey is currently in the process of suing Stonewall. She claims that she was 'investigated' by her Chambers because Stonewall was putting pressure on them (via their Equalities Index table) to do so, because she was publicly saying things like 'transwomen are not women' and was involved in setting up the registered charity the LGB Alliance.

Well I hope she is successful

I wasn't old enough to drink in the 90s but there was a few years I could drink and smoke before they put the ban in
I stopped going to pubs soon after then stopped drinking altogether 🤷🏻‍♀️
I don't think any of it was linked just happened I miss being young more than anything

Thank goodness smoking in pubs and restaurants has gone. Just no redeeming features - it leaves a stink and is bad for your health and everyone else’s. Also don’t miss the stink it left on my clothes after a night out and finding cigarette burns on my dresses. I think it’s weird if you think the smoking ban is a bad thing, and interested to know why you think smoking indoors should be brought back, but you are entitled to your opinion.

When it comes to free speech, we have ‘free speech’ - stop jumping on the American bandwagon. You can say what you want, but you can’t stop people from being offended by what you say. You can’t censor people’s reactions. I sort of agree with what (I think) you are trying to say, that it seems to be so easy to offend people these days. I don’t miss the era of casual and routine sexism/racism/homophobia, but I think we have lost our senses of humour a bit.

My carefree bone is ossifying…

Very nicely put.

@ABCeasyasdohrayme Heathershimmer - always out of stock on the rimmel concession in superdrug.

Drug dealers with Morals!!! Lol. I am a responsible mother now so would have no idea....but what you say does resonate with years ago...... they would sell weed or speed but looked down their noses at smackheads. Even weed has gone to pot with all the skunk, legal highs (which might be illegal again), and goodness knows what else filling the streets and worrying me for when my kids are a bit older....pain killers, oxy, etc

[quote Wannalivewithcommonpeople]@CounsellorTroi 😅You’re joking right?!
That comment just sums up everything I’m talking about. No ones clothes set on fire and nobody even thought or worried about that, oh ffs[/quote]
Actually they did. I used to smoke and nearly set a bridesmaid dress alight. I got cig burns in lots of clothes (thanks to others)