Casual racism or AIBU

[Kooksadooks]

Hello. I have a lot on my mind today but hope you are having a nice New Years Eve…
We (me, DP, MIL, FIL, DS ect) were sat around the TV over Christmas period.
The Channel 5 advert featuring Anne Bolelyn played by black actress Jodie Turner-Smith comes on and MIL starts complaining that she ‘doesn’t understand all this’ and ‘Anne Bolelyn wasn’t black’ and doesn’t understand ‘why white people cannot play black people’…
I bit my tongue, I appreciate that I am surrounded by people who agree with her and there’s no point in arguing with them about what I think, also not wanting to cause drama over Christmas but AIBU to feel uncomfortable at MIL’s comments?
I mentioned it to DP afterwards and he agrees with MIL

BigFatLiar
Perhaps next we get a black princess Di.

It’s outrageous that Jodie Turner-Smith played Anne Boleyn.

History tells us that Anne Boleyn was between 5’ and 5’3” tall. Pandering to political correctness by casting anyone over that height, like the 5’8” Turner-Smith, is offensive and wrong.

Said no-one ever.

It’s all make believe. If you are offended by cross-racial but not cross-height casting, ask what that says about you? Why can you cope with someone of a different height pretending to be someone else but not cope with someone of a different skin tone pretending to be someone else?

reverse racism?

The world's gone mad

This is what people say when they abruptly find themselves no longer able to air their racist views without any pushback.

I would add to my comment that anyone who

a) whines about immigration
b) thinks white people should play black characters as some sort of gotcha
c) thinks it's all PC gawn maaaaaaad or "the woke brigade"

is probably a fucking tool.

YANBU.

We don't seem to care about historical accuracy in plenty of other TV shows that are to entertain us. And I'm pretty sure most people can stretch their brains to work out Anne Boleyn probably wasn't black, just like we manage to watch plenty of other things where the person playing a character in the 1500s has perfect teeth. But let's not consign BAME people to any more years of having to play slaves or servants because they are disbarred from playing interesting historical figures just due to skin colour.

Hand in hand though is the real issue that we should be making more TV about people of colour generally so their own stories can be told so they don't have to go through this shite every time they want to take an interesting role.

It depends on how realistic we expect films and programmes to be, whether we are happy with some creativity, and how far it goes.

Paintings are no longer aiming to be just like photographs - we embrace the Impressionists and cubists for example and enjoy them for what they are.

Bridgerton was fab IMO and the diversity of the cast made it more interesting. And the families shared an ethnicity.

At the beginning of lockdown I watched The National Theatre's Twelfth Night. The cast had different ethnicities but the twins playing Viola and Sebastian were the same ethnicity so it worked.

In contrast The Royal Exchange did Streetcar Named Desire and Stella and Blanche were different ethnicities - which felt odd for a play set in the Deep South at that period in time. I wasn't sure if there was a hidden message.

Similarly The Royal Exchange's Macbeth had a woman in the title role, described as mother not father. It seemed bonkers when she started the speech 'Am I not a man...' well, no, you're not actually!

I doubt it would have mattered to your MIL if they'd cast a woman with different hair colour to the historical Anne Boleyn or some other feature that wasn't historically accurate. It just seems like her objection to a black person playing the role implies that skin colour is the defining thing that 'matters'. That said, if a white person played someone who was known to be black, I wouldn't be comfortable with that. Not very consistent but that's how I feel about it. If we lived in a world with total racial equality then it wouldn't matter, but we don't.

The problem I have with white people pay white characters and black people play black characters only is that most of the classics, books etc… have all been written about white people by white people.
Most of the important characters in history are white etc…

So that doesn’t leave a lot of space for black people to play important/recognised parts and characters iyswim.

The 'if it was the other way round it wouldn't be allowed' shit is a false equivalency as white people haven't been systematically oppressed and abused by black people throughout history. If you can't see the difference then there's no helping you, really.

Your MIL is expressing an opinion that actors should be of the same ethnicity or 'identity' of the characters they play, which is actually a very popular opinion among people who describe themselves as leftwing and progressive.

@endofbluenight

Your MIL is expressing an opinion that actors should be of the same ethnicity or 'identity' of the characters they play, which is actually a very popular opinion among people who describe themselves as leftwing and progressive.

Citation needed or is it the usual MN trans shoehorn?

The problem I have with white people pay white characters and black people play black characters only is that most of the classics, books etc… have all been written about white people by white people. Most of the important characters in history are white etc…

Well, most of the important characters in Europe perhaps.
Maybe the problem is more that we have films made of quite a narrow range of subjects/ settings/ times. Maybe we need to focus on expanding what topics films are made about and the roles within them, if we want to expand diversity. Like someone else said, we don't need a female James Bond, we just need more good roles for women.

I’m not black or mixed race but the thing that jars a little for me is that casting a black actor in a role portraying, say, the English upper classes in, for example, the regency era to me just skates over and rewrites the very real situation/struggle of many black people of that era, eg the slave trade.

Isn’t it really insulting to infer that a black person at that time could live a life of luxury in England as the Duke or Duchess or Princess of Whatever where no mention was ever made of their heritage because everyone was really accepting and colour blind then?

I'm beginning to think industry executives make these decisions in order to generate more buzz (therefore more views, more money) for the films than they would've gotten. In other words, dangle Black people as bait and capitalise on the controversies it will inevitably cause.

It really isn't about caring to represent ethnic minorities. If money isn't to be made, it won't happen.

Citation needed or is it the usual MN trans shoehorn?

Don't you read news of any sort? How on earth can this have passed you by?

Well Eddie Redmayne apologised for playing a trans woman recently.

@endofbluenight

Citation needed or is it the usual MN trans shoehorn?

Don't you read news of any sort? How on earth can this have passed you by?

Sorry just realised you managed to squeeze trans into this (!) which I had not mentioned at all and wasn't in my mind at all.

@toddybell

I'm black and I agree with your MIL. Anne Boleyn wasn't Black so should be played by someone who factually represented who she was re: ethnicity . I'd feel the same if someone white came along and played Martin Luther King or Mary Jane Seacole or Harriet Seacole or Mahatma Ghandi, etc.

I'm black and totally agree. I said the same thing when I saw the ads for the programme a few months back. It's not racist to represent a historical (or any) event factually - diversity shouldn't need to come into it.

@endofbluenight

The problem I have with white people pay white characters and black people play black characters only is that most of the classics, books etc… have all been written about white people by white people. Most of the important characters in history are white etc…

Well, most of the important characters in Europe perhaps.
Maybe the problem is more that we have films made of quite a narrow range of subjects/ settings/ times. Maybe we need to focus on expanding what topics films are made about and the roles within them, if we want to expand diversity. Like someone else said, we don't need a female James Bond, we just need more good roles for women.

I agree.

But the reality is , if you go to the theatre, this what you get.
Thee are very very few films, which really could easily be made to reflect good/strong black characters, who actually portrayed those.

There was a film recently (story just cannot remember the title. I’m sure someone will come and rescue me there). The main character was black. He was one of the ‘nice, good and strong character’ of the film. Instead if being resented as such on the film poster, he was in the background whilst all the other (not as important) characters were portrayed. All the others were white.

So yes, what we want is more and more films and play representing positively black people (and asian and women etc etc).
Atm though we have and what we have. And I’d be happier to see black people playing ‘white roles’ whilst we all get used to a new ‘order of things’.

But that aside I don't think a Black actress should have been cast in what was ostensibly billed as a series about Boleyn. White people cannot play Black characters because doing blackface is racist

Why would they have to do blackface, as you put it? Black actors playing white characters don’t do whiteface.

Sorry just realised you managed to squeeze trans into this (!) which I had not mentioned at all and wasn't in my mind at all.

Sorry, you mentioned identify, leftists and progressive its normally a good indicator of what's coming next, I had no idea what you were referencing so thats on me

I might be criticised for this but here goes:

This is an historical, real character who was a white woman so I would expect her to be played by a white actor for accuracy.

Similarly I would expect a biopic about Malcom X or Nelson Mandela to have a black man in the lead role, again for accuracy.

Similarly I would not want to see a a biopic about Marylin Monroe played by a man in drag or a film where a 50 year old actress is playing the role of a 15 year old girl...

I agree that an actor can use their skills to get into character but I also expect that the actor's appearance needs to match the requirements of the role they are playing.

None of the above is about racism, sexism or ageism it is simply about common sense. To me anyway...

History tells us that Anne Boleyn was between 5’ and 5’3” tall. Pandering to political correctness by casting anyone over that height, like the 5’8” Turner-Smith, is offensive and wrong.

This would bother me.
As a blonde actress would.
As a busty actress would.

But usually doesn't come up because they cast with the general character look in mind.