To tell DM and DF they have to start living again

[marykitty]

DM and DF have a deep, paralyzing fear of covid.
They are afraid to die, so they are not living anymore.
They are still young, 60 years old, 3x vaccine...they are still in deep lockdown, every single day since the beginning.
In 2 years i saw them maybe twice, after PCR testing (i am also fully vaccinated, and DH as well)

We had plan to see them beginning of january. We live far away and the plan was for them to come here and stay 1 week.
For them, we started to completely isolate ourself for 10 days...but it is still not enough, yesterday they called me and they canceled on us because they feel it's too dangerous.

I am heartbroken. I feel so sad for them. I feel so sad for my DCs. I want to scream at them and tell them that the years are not coming back. But would it be fair? Would it be the right thing to do? Should I "wake them up" or should I understand them?

We are very aware of covid dangers and we respect all guidelines (and even more, when I feel they are not enough) but we still need to live.

I miss my family. Since they canceled i am sort of avoiding their messages because I don't know what to say. They say they are very sad not to see us, and I believe them, i think they are just petrified.

To give more background:
I have a 2yo and a 2 months old kid.
My DM is an hoarder and they live in a 2 bedroom flat full of stuff.
We have a house with a guest room and separated bathroom, therefore is better if they come visit us.

It's probably 'easier' to live this way when you are retired - if you are not expected to go to a workplace and don't have to do the schoolrun and generally look after your children.

There's also the undeniable fact that older people are less likely to have a robust immune system. They'll take longer to recover from infection and are more likely to have the sorts of health conditions that will make Covid a more unpleasant experience.

I'd just want to say that most of the 60 and 70 year olds I know are doing their best to lead active lives and priorities keeping in touch with family members.

Actually I would scream at them just to let it out of you. It won't get you anywhere but do it. So they know your true feelings

It’s pretty difficult to take in what someone is screaming at you. A calm letter or email would be much better. We’ve done that with dh’s parents with some success.

Covid must be so difficult for people with health anxiety.

While people of course should take whatever measures they want to manage the risk, where this is wildly disproportionate they could benefit from some counselling.

Not seeing anyone for two years if you aren’t extremely vulnerable is a disproportionate reaction to the threat.

Would your parents consider some counselling to see if they can find ways to manage their anxiety?

@GoodnightGrandma

I absolutely agree with you.

OP - I’d say something to get it off my chest and make my feelings known because this isn’t just about them and how they feel, but you as well. However I wouldn’t expect any change in their behaviour whatsoever. Sometimes you just need to say your piece and move on. I understand where you’re coming from though, it’s incredibly frustrating. MIL likes to use covid as an excuse to not see her kids/grandkids when it suits her too, same with FIL.

I’m sad for you, and for them too.
Living as they do I can’t help feeling that they are now doing themselves more harm than good - unless of course they see it as a very convenient excuse to live life as they want.
My parents are a similar age (dad clinically vulnerable). They’ve done everything than can to protect themselves throughout the pandemic and have followed all the rules to the letter at all times, but they are out and about now, they shop and travel on public transport and we all spent Christmas together, lateral flowed beforehand, and kept the house well ventilated. Life really does have to go on.
Your parents have lived more of their life than they’ve got left now and as the years go by may live to regret the all the unnecessary time they spent isolated. This will be such a pity as much of their isolation will have been not so much due to COVID but rather more due to their inability to give enough consideration to the benefits of living a more normal life when the actual risk to them wasn’t great.
It maybe that their minds are made up but I think you should try and have another gentle conversation with them.

This is so sad, 60 is no age. My dad was unbearable last year, so worried and drove my dm to distraction. He's 75, has heart failure and chronic bladder cancer so I can understand why he was so panicked. However, this year, complete change of heart, he's decided life is too short, he might not be here much longer and although he's still being careful he is living life and getting out and about

@marykitty do they have underlying health problems?

Long journeys are tricky because of a possible need to stop on the way. Could you possibly meet them halfway between you for an hour or two, outdoors?

@Tomeeornottomee

I have 2 vulnerable people I don’t want to lose, so when they say they don’t feel safe or comfortable in a situation I’m more than happy to oblige them. Yes it’s hard and yes I feel like I’m missing out and so are they. But they need to feel safe and confident that the virus won’t harm them, and if they’re not at that stage yet you can’t force the issue. I really feel your pain, but I do think with the current surge that your parents opinions are valid.

But if the op and family had isolated for a long period beforehand they do would be safe.

@icedcoffees that is sad. It is choosing himself over you not the virus especially as your mum is out in the world seeing people or does he keep distance from her at home too?

It is a rejection by the people who supposedly love us the most I know with hoarding side it is a mental illness and people can't be jerked or shocked out of it but it so hard to be the other side of it but the only person who can resolve it is the one suffering from it.

How difficult, there is probably not much you can do to reassure them that would change their mind about meeting. Maybe up the zoom calls?

I’d be so frustrated too, especially as being careful is no guarantee you’ll avoid it and being less careful no guarantee you will.

So many older people I know who could die of anything at any time are literally wasting their lives because of something which if they’ve now been vaccinated, is quite unlikely to kill them.

@PurpleDaisies

Actually I would scream at them just to let it out of you. It won't get you anywhere but do it. So they know your true feelings

It’s pretty difficult to take in what someone is screaming at you. A calm letter or email would be much better. We’ve done that with dh’s parents with some success.

I meant scream metaphorically really obviously to actually scream is pointless. But to let out everything in your head with no polite holding backing for the sake of manners/different opinions/understanding acceptance of different views etc as people often do when they don't want to cause offence or upset people.

I think that you need to view it as they have a form of anxiety disorder. People who are extremely anxious about covid are really being overlooked. It has created almost another MH disorder in some people. The really hard thing about it is their extreme anxiety has been triggered by something that is a real threat and not a perceived one so it’s an extremely hard mindset to get out of. I think rather than be angry with them (I completely understand why you do feel angry though), I think you need to view them like you would if they had any other form of illness. If you want to see them and remain close to them have video calls. A lot of people I know who are extremely anxious about it use portal because they say they almost feel they are with them, but I know that’s not the same as a hug. You need to treat it like you live 1000s of miles from them (because you might as well be with their mindset) and stay in touch with them using ways you would if they did live that far from you.
It’s sad for you that it is this way, but it is also going to be very hard for them living in their paralysed fear and you mustn’t lose sight of that. I wouldn’t damage your relationship with them by shouting at them, all of you will feel worse afterwards. Empathy and compassion is the way to go.

I blame the media for a lot of this. 24 hour scare stories and hysteria build up. I am sorry for you as I don't know if they will change. Maybe when the media move on to the next thing, they will start to calm down. Sometimes people mistake existing for living. Perhaps start showing them facts about how it's just a cold for most people.

I meant scream metaphorically really obviously to actually scream is pointless. But to let out everything in your head with no polite holding backing for the sake of manners/different opinions/understanding acceptance of different views etc as people often do when they don't want to cause offence or upset people.

I assumed there was going to be no actual screaming. Letting all that penny up frustration out down the phone is going to have the same effect as screaming. Realistically, most of what’s said won’t be listed to. At least something written down can be read again.

@Rainartist they don't distance in the home AFAIK but even though mum is out as normal she is still careful - it's not like she's out clubbing every night

It's just quite a sad state of affairs really. I get being cautious but not to point that you won't see your own child outside at a distance.

I think maybe fir the next month or two I’d roll with it, but hopefully numbers will decrease soon and they’ll be a bit more confident.

@icedcoffees

My dad has gone down this road. I haven't seen him since February 2020 and he only lives forty minutes away.

My parents still live together and mum lives her life as normal but dad just won't be persuaded otherwise. He goes out for exercise but won't see people - I've even dropped mum off home after a day out and he won't even come outside to say hello.

I'll be honest and say it's pretty much ruined our relationship. He's got no interest in seeing me and has basically put his irrational fear of COVID ahead of his relationship with his child.

He's triple vaccinated, insanely healthy and goes out running daily but won't let me come and visit in the garden because it's too dangerous.

Sadly I don't think our relationship will recover at all.

So sorry to hear this. And likewise the OP.

I think the constant barrage of figures and doom and gloom from the media has not helped in this regard.

For those with grandchildren, the grandchildren will be grown up and will have less time or possibly less inclination to visit then. It's very sad. I don't know what the solution is, tbh.

How often did you used to see them?

It’s heartbreaking, the extent of the damage caused largely by the media is, and will continue to be, devastating and far-reaching. People’s mental health has been utterly destroyed and they’ve simply fallen by the wayside while all focus remains on covid. So many lives being wasted and too many lives lost when people simply can’t take anymore.
My sister, in her early twenties and perfectly physically healthy, has locked herself in her home (for some time, confined purely to her bedroom) for months. She is completely unable to deal with this and she’s expressed suicidal thoughts before now. Her partner has had enough and is now leaving her and i have no idea how she’s going to cope. She had OCD before but this is unlike anything we’ve ever seen. She logically knows she would be extremely likely to be absolutely fine if she caught covid, but logic plays no part anymore I’ve had a baby, she hasn’t met him. I don’t know when she will meet him. I’m planning his christening for March, and I can’t help but think she won’t be there.
I understand how upsetting it is, it’s awful and you miss them so much, but you cannot force anyone to see your POV. I know you don’t actually want to but you can’t scream at someone and ‘fix’ their mental health problems (if only it was that easy!!). All you can do is continue to be there for them, virtually as necessary, and carry on living your life as best you can.

Maybe write a blistering letter to them that you don’t send? Get it all out. I do think you should tell them how you feel, but shouting almost certainly won’t help. It’s tough times all right

This is so sad. I also blame the media but also the government for a lot of this. To be honest that first speech of Johnson's when he said sadly you will lose loved ones really scared me. But once we came out of lockdown we were looking after our grandson so obviously had to adopt a more pragmatic approach. My daughter and I are both convinced we had Covid quite early on anyway, as we both had very similar symptoms. We're in our late 60's, pretty fit - we do what we want to do - life's too short to miss a day when we could see our family. We moved a considerable distance a couple of years ago to be nearer so to do anything else would be self-defeating. I do have friends my age who are still really scared, hardly go out, etc. and it's really sad to see them shutting themselves off. But there's nothing one can do really - I'm so sorry that your parents feel this way. Very sad for you not to be able to see them.

@GoodnightGrandma

They are using Covid as an excuse to live as they want to. Leave them to it.

I agree with this. I think Covid has given many people the cast iron excuse to live the very small, tightly controlled, inhibited lifestyle they have (secretly) always wanted.

Suggest a walk on the beach /wood. Possibly just you keeping your distance no DCs.
Discuss a good book you've read , not sure if you can be sure if it's covid free if you buy a copy. Get her a kindle, suggest books.
Recipe to try?
Gardening - ordering seeds etc can you discuss that, share packets.

I sympathise - some of my family remain very scared though nothing like as extreme as this. It must feel like a rejection of you and your children.

It's really a mental health problem at this stage and you are unlikely to be able to snap them out of it. Many phobias have their route in something rational but go far beyond that.

I'd try a very gentle approach if you haven't already - say you miss them, would like to see them, will do it however they feel comfortable and maybe say you are worried about them and ask if they have any long-term plan to get back to a more normal life.

For some of my relatives, they haven't really understood that covid is likely here to stay so they are waiting for the point that it becomes "safe" again. I suspect even if by some miracle they feel that that point has been reached one day, they will struggle because the fear is now about more than covid.

Mine are the same I haven't seen them since 2019. They are in their 80s and its got to the point where I honestly think I won't see them before they die as they won't allow it.