To tell DM and DF they have to start living again

[marykitty]

DM and DF have a deep, paralyzing fear of covid.
They are afraid to die, so they are not living anymore.
They are still young, 60 years old, 3x vaccine...they are still in deep lockdown, every single day since the beginning.
In 2 years i saw them maybe twice, after PCR testing (i am also fully vaccinated, and DH as well)

We had plan to see them beginning of january. We live far away and the plan was for them to come here and stay 1 week.
For them, we started to completely isolate ourself for 10 days...but it is still not enough, yesterday they called me and they canceled on us because they feel it's too dangerous.

I am heartbroken. I feel so sad for them. I feel so sad for my DCs. I want to scream at them and tell them that the years are not coming back. But would it be fair? Would it be the right thing to do? Should I "wake them up" or should I understand them?

We are very aware of covid dangers and we respect all guidelines (and even more, when I feel they are not enough) but we still need to live.

I miss my family. Since they canceled i am sort of avoiding their messages because I don't know what to say. They say they are very sad not to see us, and I believe them, i think they are just petrified.

To give more background:
I have a 2yo and a 2 months old kid.
My DM is an hoarder and they live in a 2 bedroom flat full of stuff.
We have a house with a guest room and separated bathroom, therefore is better if they come visit us.

My inlaws are like this op, it's very sad.

This is happening to so many people because the media has been so extreme in their "if you go outside you'll catch covid and die!" Message.
I don't know what you can do. Could you talk to their gp? It's a mental health issue. They need help.

Have they never met either of their grandchildren?

You have to weigh up these most likely scenarios/outcomes:

• You have a frank chat airing your views; they don't agree & don't change their lives, but you feel better to stop playing along with pretending they are normal. This honesty preserves your relationship.

• You tell them frankly & they respond by snubbing you & being hurt & barely communicating. You may still feel better for being honest, and the honesty long term will be better for you, which seems reasonable outcome since they can't change.

• A lot more damage is done to the relationship because they can't cope with hearing truth & you regret the pointless honesty. This is the "I should continue to be a doormat about all this" response -- but sometimes is least bad way forward.

On balance I prefer honesty, but it's your risk to take. I sure don't think you can hope they will change in response. Best scenario is they lift their self-imposed rules somewhat earlier, but in future

@HugeAckmansWife

But omicron is, for the vast, vast majority, not a big deal. Look at the figures of cases vs hospitalisation. Its not reasonable that this new wave has made them nervous again because we are not March 2020 anymore.

Well it is making many, many people nervous which is why pubs etc are struggling and governments around the world are taking action. I don't blame people for feeling a bit jittery right now, even though the situation is nothing like March 2020.

They're the same age as me. I've been going out to work through this whole thing (key worker), which I think has helped. I work in central London and use public transport so I've been fairly pragmatic all through. Triple jabbed and not scared at all really.
If people are that terrified, I do feel that there's something else psychological going on.

My dad has gone down this road. I haven't seen him since February 2020 and he only lives forty minutes away.

My parents still live together and mum lives her life as normal but dad just won't be persuaded otherwise. He goes out for exercise but won't see people - I've even dropped mum off home after a day out and he won't even come outside to say hello.

I'll be honest and say it's pretty much ruined our relationship. He's got no interest in seeing me and has basically put his irrational fear of COVID ahead of his relationship with his child.

He's triple vaccinated, insanely healthy and goes out running daily but won't let me come and visit in the garden because it's too dangerous.

Sadly I don't think our relationship will recover at all.

I have 2 vulnerable people I don’t want to lose, so when they say they don’t feel safe or comfortable in a situation I’m more than happy to oblige them. Yes it’s hard and yes I feel like I’m missing out and so are they. But they need to feel safe and confident that the virus won’t harm them, and if they’re not at that stage yet you can’t force the issue. I really feel your pain, but I do think with the current surge that your parents opinions are valid.

I'd love to know, if it were possible, exactly how many cases of a normal cold are circulating at any one time in the UK. If we counted them, the same as we do Covid. If omicron, as it seems, presents in most cases in a similar way, especially to the vaxxed, then it would seem less reasonable to be jittery about going out right now, avoiding pubs etc unless they also did that prior to Covid.

Similar situation.
My parents are 70 and 75 and live 150 miles away.
I’ve seen them once since February 2020.
I wanted to visit with the teens this Christmas. They said omicron is too dangerous and rife down there,

Very sad situation.

I can’t honestly say when I will see them again,

I think this thread demonstrates that this isn’t very unusual and is going to have pretty devastating consequences going forward as (hopefully) this pandemic tails off. Millions of people worldwide left too fearful to live their lives.

I hope they aren’t forgotten by society and some help is made available though I doubt it.

OP I’m really sorry. If you want to see them I think you have to comply with their “rules “ and do it their way. Perhaps they will be swayed a little by the joy of their GC but I would expect this to be a long road.

@Clymene

I think Covid has exacerbated mental illness for a lot of people and triggered/deepened agoraphobia.

It's really sad for you. I'm not sure what you can do.

I agree with this, and for others it’s been a very useful excuse not to do things that perhaps made them feel slightly unsettled in normal times.

It is sad though, it’s ok to feel sad that they are choosing this over you and their grandchildren.

@icedcoffees. That’s terribly sad 😢

It’s horrid how this virus is destroying relationships.

I agree that if DM is a hoarder she's likely prone to anxiety and I'm not sure there's anything you can do about it unless you can get them to agree to online/phone counselling perhaps. Can you maybe approach them along the lines of 'COVID is going to effect everything for a long time, and you don't need to live like this - could you try some counselling over the phone to help you?'

I think you could have a firm but kind word. You are allowed to tell them how you feel. Say you have been isolating for days in preparation for their visit. This has been hard for DC and you are extremely upset that they are now backing down. I think it would be fair to say the years aren't coming backThe DC will be grown and never know them if they don't agree to take reasonable risks with approrpiate safety measures. If they drive to see you in their own car, after all of you have done LFTs, if they don't stop at services on the way, they just are not at risk.

They may need to you to be blunt to wake them up from the rigid fear they have built up. I honestly think the mental illness that has occurred is as destructive as the virus.

If your mum is a hoarder and has OCD - she might also have contamination OCD / and or health anxiety which would have been made worse due to COVID.
If it was me I would book and Airbnb near them and go visit even if it’s outside. Principles of CBT - exposure in small amounts helps. Seeing you outside might help her work towards more change.

They sound like my parents…
My mum only goes out of its outside. She doesn’t go in a shop unless she can’t do otherwise and she avoids any big supermarket. Shops online for food. Etc…
They went out to a couple of restaurant this summer because they could be outside. Goes to play golf. That’s it.

They will not entertain coming to see us so they haven’t seen their grand children for two+ years now.

There is nothing you can do I think.

it sounds very difficult , but i dont think theres anything you can do , painfull thought that is , from what iv seen people hysterical about covid just get aggressive if they are challenged or talked to about it , they cant see any reasoning on it at all , personally i cant see the point in living if you are trapped by your own making within your home too scared to leave it , one might as well be dead , but as others have pointed out covid had given the perfect excuse to some to become hermits
hopefully at some point they will realise that life and the world is passing them by as they sit in their house

Can you take a gentler approach? Meet them somewhere outside for a walk? I think expecting them to come and stay for a week was probably too big a step for them to manage right now. The kind of firm words suggested by some PPs seem likely to make things worse to me

[quote Runaround50]@icedcoffees. That’s terribly sad 😢

It’s horrid how this virus is destroying relationships.[/quote]
It is - it's ruined our relationship completely.

I would absolutely understand if he just wanted to meet outdoors or at a distance but he won't even come and stand 3-4m away from me outside to say hello.

I've given up now tbh. He's a very intelligent man but focuses on things and it's like he can't see the wood for the trees. He's missing out on so much but he just doesn't see it (or doesn't care and tbh I'm not sure which is worse).

I empathise completely, we were in a very similar situation with MIL, she was so scared of COVID and stopped going out, having visitors etc.

She didn’t want the vaccine either as she was scared of that too.

It was really difficult, she would not listen to advice, watching BBC news added to her fear.

We just couldn’t reach her with whatever we said, and I expect your parents will be the same.

MIL had to go into hospital, while she was there she tested positive for COVID, without a symptom, unless she was tested she would never have known and recovered fully.

Sadly we lost MIL recently not COVID related, she was very poorly in her last few weeks of life. I feel so sad that she shut herself away and wasted the time she had left which breaks my heart, we miss her so much.

I've got a similar situation with my DM who's in her 70s. I'm starting to see the mental effect of her not socialising or walking around very much eg she's not as sharp as she was, gets anxious about everyday stuff, finds it harder to express herself and is moving around slower.

She needs to get over this and re-engage with the world because the risk to of her health from not doing so is more than the risk from covid now. I am really worried. I've tried encouraging her to go to Sainsburys at least as a start but she won't. I don't know what to do.

Actually I would scream at them just to let it out of you. It won't get you anywhere but do it. So they know your true feelings. They have stopped living tell them that, it would have been safe to go after an isolation period, the time for being understanding and politely accepting their view has gone. They can't control your lives by enforcing the isolation and then cancelling on you last minute. That is wrong.

I understand your feelings so much although in a different way. My mum is a hoarder. When our children arrived I told her they wouldn't be coming to hers regularly, it was unhygienic, dangerous etc. She did the constant I'll sort it but never did. 13 years on it's still them same. And several grand children later from my siblings they too don't go. She has missed out on so much, I'm so sad for the way it could have been, my mum lives in my childhood home with loads of my old toys, the children could have had lovely times but they didn't.

So tell you do. Tell them how sad you are how you feel the rejection of your children (because that's what it is even if they don't see it) how they'll never get this time back and their relationship with you and the children will become more and more distanced and remote.

My mum has terrible anxiety too and she messed me about over coming over at Christmas. This year and I told her, (for possibly the first time ever) that she was being controlling and it wasn't fair to leave me dangling on tenterhooks and to just make a decision. After I was really nervous of the fall out, she actually said she didn't realize it was controlling and she made the decision came and we had a lovely time. So maybe giving your true thoughts to them may break through the anxiety. The only thing that makes me still make an effort with mum is she's on her own as dad died. Are both you parents the same or is one enabling the other?

@GoodnightGrandma

They are using Covid as an excuse to live as they want to. Leave them to it.

Absolutely this. They are hoarders so they have mental ill health already. Hoarding is related to anxiety and often goes hand in hand with agoraphobia. Covid has simply enabled a more extreme version of the life they already live. Terribly sad but not much you can do.

@HugeAckmansWife

I'd love to know, if it were possible, exactly how many cases of a normal cold are circulating at any one time in the UK. If we counted them, the same as we do Covid. If omicron, as it seems, presents in most cases in a similar way, especially to the vaxxed, then it would seem less reasonable to be jittery about going out right now, avoiding pubs etc unless they also did that prior to Covid.

I think it wont have ever have been studied properly before, but it would be interesting to find out more about this, as some of the viruses that are not covid but are making people feel really ill are being talked about much more, but if its not covid, i doubt its being studied further.

Thank you for you messages, so sad to see many are experiencing the same.

My mom MH is problematic since she was a teenager, she retired at the beginning of the pandemic. I think she goes out only to see GP and her mom (with mask). Groceries are delivered.
My DF is WFH, he occasionally has meeting but always masked.

I actually wrote something incorrect. I saw them twice here, with them entering my home. Once in sommer 2021, once in October again briefly for DC2 birth. I taught we were on a good path but then....stupid Omicron.
I saw them also few times outside their place, for like 30 minutes, masked. So sad.

When they come here we normally isolate beforehand and we make a test, and then they feel safe enough to be around wihout mask, they love to play with DC1....

I feel they have this wall around Them, When they are strong enough to break it and be with us they are really happy, but they almost always see only the scary dark part and are blocked.

I am just sad for them.