Class difference - if you're posh

[2022bebetter]

Posh people of MN, help me!

I have married into a very posh family. Not titled posh, but public school. DH and his brothers all lovely.

Sister, MIL and SIL clearly look down on me.

I know I shouldn't care and it's their problem etc but I feel so embarrassed when I clearly get stuff 'wrong'.

SIL in particular, will never correct me but quite often say 'I could never do xx, so tacky / common' knowing full well it's something I do! Most recently I have learnt that I say garage 'wrong'.

Wherever we go, they always dress so similar and I get it 'wrong'.

Obviously the easiest tip is not to care, but any advice from posh MNetters would be so gratefully received.

I was always led to believe that the word "posh" is itself a bit downmarket..... a truly UC person would surely say "smart"?

@2022bebetter

All you “ need” to know is bread plate on the left, wine glass on the right and that’s so you don’t take somebody else’s 😂.

Start from the outside cutlery wise - and that’s so you use the cutlery you NEED

Napkin on the knee when you sit down and that’s for mess purposes. So NEEDED.

You don’t need the rest.

Extra:

only start eating when the host starts and
break a bit of bread off and butter or rather than cutting and spreading like you’re making sandwiches.
Don’t lean across, ask for xyz to be passed.
Fork not digger

None of it matters really. Because I’m sure you’d be better off not bothering.

Good luck: they sound like horrors.

Whatever you do you won’t win with her as she just sounds like a cow.

I don’t believe all of the tropes about the genuinely posh not caring. Just look at all of the bitchyness about the Middletons. I knew lots of ‘old money’ people at university and there was a mix between the gregarious aristo’s daughter who could socialise with anyone and the extremely snooty. It is the same as the claptrap about all of the old money people driving clapped out old Volvos. Many of the families and very wealthy and spend their money and mix with other similarly wealthy families.

@2022bebetter

To add - I know they're being snobby but they are very PLU and I feel like an outsider.

I promise you they aren't posh.

@2022bebetter

Well yes, I'd love to tell them to F off and not care but I do!

I just want to know what faux pas to avoid.

@Shiningpath I say 'garridge' which is common apparently.

My old boss when I was a 16 year old part time shop assistant once sneered at another young girl who worked there, because she said “garridge”.

“It’s not garridge, it’s garr-ahhhge.”

I went outside, picked up a cabbage (general store/greengrocer), put it on the counter in front of him, and asked what it was called.

“Are you sure, Stephen? Are you sure it’s not a cabb-ahhhhge?”

I’m not sure where I got the stones tbh, I was normally very shy, but I do remember it fondly.

You mightn’t be posh, OP, but at least you’re not a stuck up twat eh.

It’s ridiculous to imagine all posh people are lovely charming people who would never mean to offend. Plenty enjoy making outsiders aware that is exactly what they are. Same as with any social group.

Since you mentioned table manners, I will admit that I do notice manners. Although I would never comment and certain things set my teeth on edge.

Assuming you’re aware of basics (work your way from the outside in with cutlery, side plate to the left, don’t hold your fork like a shovel or knife like a pen) a couple of others that always stand out to me is cutting your bread roll and repeatedly scraping butter from the butter dish. Always break and cut on chunk for your side plate.

I agree with @Donotgogentle and will go against the old idealistic Mumsnet cliché
I know quite a few upper class/titled people and many of them are extremely arrogant, entitled, … detestable in some (many) cases …

I've encountered this issue from the other side, OP, for example my (lovely) PILs joking about my 'Queen Mother' accent, making comments about not 'moving in the same circles' as I do and occasionally feeling out of place at social events that I'd invited them to. I don't think they ever regarded me as being either inferior or superior, just different, and I feel the same. Your MIL and SIL may think of themselves as 'posh' (a word I cannot bear) but their behaviour toward you betrays a lack of breeding. My MIL has more grace in her little finger than your ILs have between them, by the sound of it. Please don't let them change who you are.

What @ShirleyPhallus said is absolutely true.
It's only the insecure and social-climbing who are rude about this sort of thing.
Also, posh doesn't equal rich necessarily.

Id go against the general wisdom here, and instead try to learn their codes, their mannerisms ect to fit in as best as possible

@Hawkins001 no idea how to though!

I'm not brave enough to be snide back, sadly!

@PegasusReturns

It’s ridiculous to imagine all posh people are lovely charming people who would never mean to offend. Plenty enjoy making outsiders aware that is exactly what they are. Same as with any social group.

Since you mentioned table manners, I will admit that I do notice manners. Although I would never comment and certain things set my teeth on edge.

Assuming you’re aware of basics (work your way from the outside in with cutlery, side plate to the left, don’t hold your fork like a shovel or knife like a pen) a couple of others that always stand out to me is cutting your bread roll and repeatedly scraping butter from the butter dish. Always break and cut on chunk for your side plate.

This is why posh events stress me out so much. I have no idea how I do any of those things, but .i'm sure there'll be someone who thinks I'm holding my knife like a pen.

I just don't get any of it (and I don't want to, before anyone suggests Debretts).

Oh dear this is really poor.
They are definitely without any class as op have said - simply by saying ‘how common or tacky’. They really sound incredibly insecure and unpleasant.
Don’t change - even if you did they’d continue to look down on you as ‘trying to fit in’. Have you spoken to do about it ? How did he escape the nastiness I wonder ?

Don’t change; you sound very nice, and all that matters is that you and DH are happy.

If they were really smart they wouldn’t care, and wouldn’t dream of insulting you- they may be wealthy but if they’re carrying on that way then they’ve clearly not got any class.

@DaisyNGO but if you don’t care then it doesn’t matter.

But for some people the fact that table manners are an obvious signifier of upbringing is important and they want to fit it. That shouldn’t be a problem either.

May I derail?

Napkin on the knee, was this always a thing?
Because napkins in my day were for tucking in or wiping spills.
On the knee is a bit prissy to be upper class surely?

[quote 2022bebetter]@Hawkins001 no idea how to though!

I'm not brave enough to be snide back, sadly! [/quote]
When I made my recommendations, I don't advocate being snide, it's more lean or listen to how they choose their words, what their perspectives are, e.g. If your a intelligence officer and your building a psychological profile of them, kinda thing, keep a study journal to make notes, look at their clothes, styles, the shops they frequent , every detail matters,

These pointers may help.you to copy and fit in better with them.

@2022bebetter your SIL sounds a right sour puss and somewhat nose out of joint with your entrance to the family. Recommend studying up on dinner etiquette, this will hold you in good stead for dinner parties (away from family), practise at home if necessary.

Re - Watch.. ask if that’s the same one that’s the same one the family Labrador ate and had to be restored after salvage and a proper deep clean..

@2022bebetter

Well yes, I'd love to tell them to F off and not care but I do!

I just want to know what faux pas to avoid.

@Shiningpath I say 'garridge' which is common apparently.

The way you pronounce words is not wrong. By whose judgment do you commit ‘faux pas’? They have absolutely no right to judge you, how dare they! Be yourself and be comfortable in your own skin. Next time they make your feel uncomfortable ask them, ‘do you mean to be so rude?’ (Head tilt)

Learn

[quote PegasusReturns]@DaisyNGO but if you don’t care then it doesn’t matter.

But for some people the fact that table manners are an obvious signifier of upbringing is important and they want to fit it. That shouldn’t be a problem either.[/quote]
I didn't I say I didn't care
I do care about being thought of in a certain way and I hate the atmosphere that's created by People Like Them 😂

So I avoid that kind of thing

Anything with very smart dressing up is something I avoid.

Why should you fit in with them ??? Be yourself

@Hawkins001

Learn

Why?

The truly posh don’t care much about table manners - I’ve seen genuine poshos drinking from their soup bowls and eating with fingers at formal dinners. It isn’t 1930 these days.

You don’t need to learn their codes OP - “garazge” and “common” are very aspiring lower middle with money, all very “phone for the fish knives, Norman”, not how the really posh speak. I’d just ignore and nod and smile - they aren’t as posh as they clearly think they are 🤣

“Phone for the fish knives, Norman
As cook is a little unnerved;
You kiddies have crumpled the serviettes
And I must have things daintily served.

Are the requisites all in the toilet?
The frills round the cutlets can wait
Till the girl has replenished the cruets
And switched on the logs in the grate.

It's ever so close in the lounge dear,
But the vestibule's comfy for tea
And Howard is riding on horseback
So do come and take some with me

Now here is a fork for your pastries
And do use the couch for your feet;
I know that I wanted to ask you-
Is trifle sufficient for sweet?

Milk and then just as it comes dear?
I'm afraid the preserve's full of stones;
Beg pardon, I'm soiling the doileys
With afternoon tea-cakes and scones.“

@lightisnotwhite I’ve always put napkin on knee, placing on chair if I need to leave the table and placed on table tat end of meal.

I have dined with some particularly smart men who have tucked their napkin (have also been portly, not sure if that’s coincidence or indicative of a need to be more protective of their shirts!)

Portly reminds me that port, unlike food, should always be passed to the left. Another rule that can mark out a persons upbringing.