Caused upset!

[Mellowyellow222]

We had a family gathering on Boxing Day.

We have a cousin who has recently reconnected with the family. He is my mums cousin, and we don’t really know him. This was the first time meeting his wife. They are in their early sixties and have recently married.

He introduced himself to my two nieces as their uncle Fred, and couple used the term aunt and uncle repeatedly to all the children there. They hadn’t met any of the children before so didn’t know their names - or if they were even in the family. One Niece asked me quietly afterwards who he was and if he was really her uncle.

I explained that he was a type of cousin so no not really an uncle but some people use that term for wider family members - we don’t in our family and only parents siblings are called aunt and uncle. But I explained he was just being friendly.

This mans wife overheard and they have now made a big deal about not be made to feel welcome and how we don’t accept them as family? My parents think I should apologise.

This is bonkers right? He isn’t her uncle - how else was I supposed to explain this? I am not sure what I am apologising for so I have refused.

@PostingForTheFirstTime

I'd like to add that the conversation you had with your niece was in private, and that the cousin's new wife was earwigging, which was rude of her. She would have nothing to feel embarrassed about if she herself hadn't brought what you said to your parents' attention.

Honestly, I am worried about your parents' stance here. Why are they so invested in the opinion of the wife of a cousin they haven't seen for years, to the extent that they would have made it a occasion to potentially start a fight with their daughter? Surely they can see that you had a very private conversation with a child, to clarify a position she found puzzling, and that the new wife of the log-lost cousin should have tactfully not have mentioned it to anyone? Or do your parents think that a stranger (even if related) should be able to push in to an established family and impose their different terminologies and expectations?

Anyway, it sounds like the first episode of a six-part TV drama or intrigue and estrangement. How long until "Uncle" Fred starts rummaging in the attic for the long-lost deeds that prove that his cousins stole his inheritance......

I loved this answer.

My parents are very focused on appearances and keeping the family happy.

My mum in particular can be quite patronising to me (that is a whole other thread) and often speaks to me as if I am a child.

I recently told a story about someone in work frustrating me by continually refusing to do something the way I wanted. She laughed and said this man probably thinks this young girl isn’t sure what she is doing so I will just do it my way to help her out!

This man is my secretary and I am a director of the company!

So she would never take my side in an argument and would assume I am being a mischievous brat!

I don't think the point is what members of other families may call each other; it is what members of OP's family call each other. Ie not Aunt and Uncle for all and sundry of whatever relationship.

"He introduced himself to my two nieces as their uncle Fred" is him being rude; that title is not his to expect, it is up to the family to choose to call him that -- or not.

That his wife first eavesdropped and then became objectionable about the conversation she overheard makes her a must to avoid, as well. As for claiming as her own a name which already belongs to someone else, how rude is that? And to make a fuss about being told, with absolute truth, that someone else is called a name to which she actually has no entitlement, makes her an insufferable nuisance.

Be glad they are not closely related!

@BeyondMyWits

It was probably unkind of you to say you "don't do that in your family" in front of her. That would have made her feel unwelcome... and probably quite uncomfortable, in a room full of people she didn't know, when she was a guest.

I don’t think it was meant unkindly, it was just a very literal explanation. A friend of mine used to refer to me as Auntie Lua to her dc. My kids were absolutely baffled as they knew that she wasn’t my sister, so I couldn’t be the children’s auntie. I gave them exactly the same explanation, that some families refer to friends/neighbours as Aunt/Uncle but we don’t do that in our family. No judgement, just an explanation.

He's your 1st cousin once removed. Not sure what relation his wife would be.

A “type” of cousin? Then went on to explain that’s not what you do in YOUR “family”.

You could’ve said he’s your mum’s cousin and left it at that, knowing they were still there tbh.
I can see why she felt hurt tbh.

I’d see nothing wrong with them introducing themselves as uncle and aunt but that’s the norm in our family.

I may have simplified it for a child. And yes I should have said he is granny’s cousin, not your uncle.

I couldn’t remember the cousin removed thing - I think he would be her fist cousin twice removed? Image into has two cousins - they are 8 and 6. We don’t refer to my cousins as her cousins and we all just laugh and say was are sort of cousins. So I was just referring g to that loose family connection when I said type of cousin.

And I really don’t think when you have been married for a few moths you can expect to be considered part of a family? This woman is in her sixties - I have never met her, don’t know the first thing about her or her family. She married my second on cousin or first cousin once removed. I do think she was getting a bit carried away.

Our family might do things differently to hers, but our way has evolved slowly over decades.

For example my first cousin knows my bricked very well, sees them every couple of months. They call her by her first name, and know she isn’t their aunt. They call their great aunts and uncles by their first names. It’s just what we have always done.

Thing is even now saying "our" family do it differently is stating that they are not part of your family. They are cousins. They are part of your family and you are saying they aren't. They find that hurtful.

My husband was part of my extended family even before we married. And I part of his.

She's bonkers. And so are your Mum's cousin and your parents. Aunty and Uncle are reserved for actual Aunts and Uncles or close family/family friends.

Reminds me of when my Dad's girlfriend of about 2 minutes expected to be called Nanna when my first was born. I barely knew her, I wasn't going to set her up as equal to my Mum and MIL.

I suppose if I am honest I was trying to out a distance between us - I found it all quite uncomfortable. Maybe the wife picked up on that

And

they only have one aunt - me and one uncle - their dads brother. It’s a big extended family but no one else is called aunt and uncle

I think you are put out that YOU are the only 'Aunt' & don't want YOUR toes trodden on.

I don't think it's what you said, but the way you said it.

@BeyondMyWits

Thing is even now saying "our" family do it differently is stating that they are not part of your family. They are cousins. They are part of your family and you are saying they aren't. They find that hurtful.

My husband was part of my extended family even before we married. And I part of his.

Okay. Point taken.

Maybe that is a fair criticism. In my mind people I haven’t meet aren’t my family. They are quite distant relatives. They don’t know us and we don’t know them. They weren’t there for weddings and funerals, they don’t know our names or anything about us. Yes if someone drew a huge family tree they would appear in it - but so would hundreds of people.

Over time I might get to know them better and start to think of them as family. But at the minute they are strangers who were difficult the first time I met them.

My mum rang her bother last night and he laughed about it. Said he and my aunt regretted inviting them because they were very intense and invited themselves to stay at my uncles holiday home!

My uncle said I wasn’t the only one who was uncomfortable.

We meet once a year as a big extended family, my uncle has said of course they now having a standing invitation to that large gathering but he won’t be searching out any other long lost cousins😂. Perhaps there is a reason why they have lost touch.

I am in my forties and have contact with all my cousins. None of them would ever behave like this

I agree with you in terms of the titles of aunt and uncle. Ds has blood related aunts and uncles but he also has some of our close friends as aunt and uncle, but that was agreed on and I'm happy with that. I don't like the idea of someone who doesn't know ds to call themselves by a title and he has shot me a look before when it's happened. It's about comfort zones and you're not wrong there

@Mellowyellow222

I had wondered if it was a cultural issue. She is from Wales - we are in Ireland.

But manners are universal and it seems odd to create such a fuss over such a little thing the first time you meet people.

I think a certain kind of lower-middle class British person is far bigger on the use of ‘auntie’ and uncle’ for distant or non-relatives than Irish people.

I remember English friends of my grandfather’s long-lost sister being quite insistent about being ‘aunties’ to DS and me when they first visited, despite not being relatives and never having met us before.

That they were also rather prissy and had poor manners is suggested by their shocked response to seeing a milk carton on the kitchen table — they’d shown up unannounced at breakfast time and four children were eating their cereal — and one of them picking it up and calling in panicked tones for a jug and saying ‘We never do that!’

My poor, meek mother was humiliated.

Honestly OP what a lot of pish. You were absolutely right to explain the way you did, if the flavour of the month to a second cousin you hadn't met before, who doesn't know the names of the people he is 'uncle..ing' is pissed off let them be. Tell your parents that even though they would like to keep up appearances, lying to children and confusing them re family members is not your thing. Hopefully your uncle will set your parents right and let them know how he feels too and you don't have to see these odd people again

It's normal to call those kind of relations aunt and uncle. Im guessing you made it sound offensive with the tone of your explanation rather than the actual content

Just apologize for causing offense and explain that you want your children to understand family trees etc so it's important that they understand the complexities of families.

Maddy I have decided I am not going to apologise. What i said was correct - they aren’t aunt and uncle and calling them that just isn’t normal in our family. The children feel weird about it.

The children have much closer relatives who they don’t call aunt and uncle so this would seem odd to the rest of the family.

I don’t think you can arrive into a family and expect them to change to suit you.

I also don’t think there was a tone in what I said because I was talking factually to a child who I love very much.

These are grown adults with children and grandchild of their own - who they have lost touch with over the years.

I won’t see them till next Christmas - the children won’t call them aunt and uncle next year - but it’s unlikely they would call them anything, or have any reason to speak to them apart from saying hello or happy Christmas.

It's normal to call those kind of relations aunt and uncle
Not in OP's family, and also not in mine. They'd never be aunt and uncle in my family, just plain old Fred and Joan (or whatever).
OP, I don't think you've anything to apologise for, so don't.

*A few red flags here op.

First that they were over-familiar and insisting on being called Aunt & Uncle when they are not. Second that they are making you feel guilty for not playing along. Third that they complained to your parents about it. I'd be wary. There may be a very good reason he was a "distant" cousin in the first place.*

This 100% I’d be giving them a wide berth personally.

@BeyondMyWits

Thing is even now saying "our" family do it differently is stating that they are not part of your family. They are cousins. They are part of your family and you are saying they aren't. They find that hurtful.

My husband was part of my extended family even before we married. And I part of his.

It was not said to this unrelated female; she eavesdropped and overheard a conversation in which a child was having something explained.

It is hurtful to a child to be told lies, think on. Possibly even damaging. This female stranger expects her lie to a child ("I am your aunt") to be accepted as truth. Not good enough.

Was your now-husband part of your family on the first occasion you met him? Was he perhaps your mother's son? That is what this man is claiming: to be the child's uncle he would have to be the brother of either her mother or her father.

I suppose all families are different.

It’s amazing that in @BeyondMyWits her wider extended family - her parents cousins - thought of her now husband as family the first time they met him.

I define family as people who I love and who I feel close to. My brother in law was of course welcomed into my family. He is my sisters husband - so I have taken time to get to know him, I see him regularly and I love him like a brother.

The new wife of my mother’s cousin (when I don’t even know the man) doesn’t have the same status.

That may sound harsh - my parents have probably about twenty cousins who I have never met. I am close to my aunts, uncles and their children but I don’t think of the relatives beyond that as family. Had they been around more then I am sure I would have developed a bond. But I don’t t think it can be instantly manufactured.

@Mellowyellow222

I suppose all families are different.

It’s amazing that in @BeyondMyWits her wider extended family - her parents cousins - thought of her now husband as family the first time they met him.

I define family as people who I love and who I feel close to. My brother in law was of course welcomed into my family. He is my sisters husband - so I have taken time to get to know him, I see him regularly and I love him like a brother.

The new wife of my mother’s cousin (when I don’t even know the man) doesn’t have the same status.

That may sound harsh - my parents have probably about twenty cousins who I have never met. I am close to my aunts, uncles and their children but I don’t think of the relatives beyond that as family. Had they been around more then I am sure I would have developed a bond. But I don’t t think it can be instantly manufactured.

Of course not, and to be honest, their behaviour at this first meeting is unlikely to grow any closeness that might have developed had they chosen to behave in a less entitled and whiny way. You don't get to show up in a family you've never met and tell them how to alter their behaviour to suit you, and complain if they do things differently.

@BeyondMyWits didn't say that. She said that they were part of each other's extended families before they married, not the first time they were introduced. They might have been together years before marrying.

I don't think it's that unusual though. DH's extended family welcomed me the first time they met me. They knew that he was serious about me and that was good enough for them. That's very different to an unfamiliar blood relation expecting to have immediate status as a member of the family as 'Uncle' Fred seems to expect.

I am interested in how you are all defining extended family.

I am starting to think my family might be weird😂.

For those of you in your thirties, forties and fifties do you all have relationships with your parents cousins?

I have relationships with my cousins and my aunts and uncles. But this is the first time I have met a more distant relative than that.

@Mellowyellow222

I am interested in how you are all defining extended family.

I am starting to think my family might be weird😂.

For those of you in your thirties, forties and fifties do you all have relationships with your parents cousins?

I have relationships with my cousins and my aunts and uncles. But this is the first time I have met a more distant relative than that.

Absolutely not. Both my parents have dozens of cousins I've never met, or encountered once or twice at a family funeral -- I couldn't pick them out of a police lineup. I had a first cousin of my mother's who had emigrated about 40 years earlier, changed her name and reinvented herself as a home counties Tory matron, contact me out of the blue when I was in the UK at university, when even my mother hadn't seen or heard from her since childhood. It turned out she'd decided I must be acceptable if I was at Oxford.

@ShinyHappyPoster

What did you suggest the DCs call them? Like a PP, in our family it would be considered rude for children to call older adults by their first name.

How about mr. and mrs. Thingy. You know, the default for all of mankind. There is no need to complicate things.

They sound like difficult kind of people that you might want to stay away from anyway.