To be potentially homeless when I’m old?

[Dogmummy1980]

I’ve been with DP now for 2.5 years and we moved in together a few months ago - me moving into his house. I was renting a property previously and also moved in with debts that are now almost clear. We have 4 kids, 2 each, none together. I’ve always said if it is that we split I would never claim for his house - I don’t own a property and his is mortgaged but in the instance we split it wouldnt feel right me doing so. He is divorced and it was their marital home. I pay half of the household outgoings each month

However my mind is niggling at me - if we are together until he dies then what then for me? When I’ve brought it up he has simply said to trust that his kids/family wouldn’t see me having to move out immediately. Whaaaattt??? He has also now claimed I am asking this as I am after money - I’m absolutely not as my only question has been if/when we were elderly. I am also aware I would never be in his will - the entire lot would be for his kids. I’m a benefactor in my mums will so eventually I would be ok money wise (as much as I hate to think of this idea)

So essentially for me to ensure I have somewhere to live when I am old I would need to buy a property and rent it out for the next goodness knows how long - something I really don’t want to have to do but I see no other way to protect myself when I’m old. I rented out my now sold (at a loss) property before and it’s been all manners of hassle.

AIBU to think this is ridiculous that I’m having to do this? That you either want to build a life with someone or you don’t??? And certainly if you are planning on spending to next 30+ years with someone you wouldn’t just expect your DP to leave their home at that sort of age in those circumstances?? I just feel lost/bereft - huge mix of emotions really!

@JustWonderingIfYou

RED FLAG!!! For the Dp!

Op has only been there a couple of months and already wants a lifelong right to live there! Wow.

No way would I change my will for someone who i haven't even lived with for a year. What if you're not compatible?

Or you could actually read the OP's post instead of inventing a fiction to present her as a gold digger.

@LolaSmiles

A fairer way would be that his children could still have an inheritance (ie: everything but the house) and you get the house (or at least able to live it until your death and then it would pass to the children). If he's not prepared to put this or something similar in place, then you should reconsider the whole relationship. Reconsidering a relationship because the person with assets won't hand them over on a plate to someone who has debts is crazy.

I'd be running away from anyone who felt that I should be their meal ticket and prioritise them over my own children because we'd lived together a couple of months.
It's a big red flag for cocklodger or vaglodger.

Again, inventing a fiction - try reading the OP's post. She is very clearly talking about the future if they build a long term relationship.

However even if he dropped dead tomorrow she has given up her contracted accommodation and needs at least as much security as that would afford - a period of decent notice, especially as she is currently paying his mortgage for him.

[quote AcrossthePond55]@TatianaBis

Not in the US State I live in, it doesn't. Property remains separate for an unmarried couple unless a co-habitation agreement is legally drawn up. In fact even if you marry a home owned before the marriage is NOT considered community property.

And I would assume that in the UK a validly written rental contract would negate the ability to claim an 'interest'. Otherwise what would stop a tenant renting a room from claiming an interest?[/quote]
OP is not in the US as you know, and that would be the consequence of your demand for mortgage payments here.

Of course this does not apply to a tenancy agreement, but OP is not a tenant - if she were she’d have legal rights she does not currently have - eg advance notice of eviction etc. As it stands DP could throw her out without notice and she’d have nothing to show for her payments.

That’s why they need a cohabitation agreement.

Its incredible just how many people cannot look past their internalised misogyny to actually read the OP's post.

If one person gives up the security of a tenancy agreement to move into a partner's mortgage property and contributes half their mortgage payments then at the very least that new partner should have a decent agreement about notice periods, preferably a proper tenancy agreement or an agreement to buy into the property.

If they live together for 20 odd years with the second partner contributing to the mortgage of that property then at the least they should get the right to live there with the property going eventually to the owner's chosen beneficiaries. Frankly if the new partner is being asked to pay half the mortgage for 20 yrs with no interest in the property at all they are better off mortgaging their own place to protect their own DCs' inheritance.

It doesn't matter which way around the sexes are, its just that in practice women are less likely to protect themselves financially and are more likely to move into and pay for the man's property.

There's never going to be a cohabitation agreement though is there? He owns the house, why would he sign it over?

My house is worth over 800K, do you think i'd move man in and give him a share or it?
No, if he paid money then that would be cheaper than his current rent. honestly i'd think he was getting a good deal over renting.
No he wouldn't own a share on my death, just like he wouldn't if he rented.

even if he dropped dead tomorrow she has given up her contracted accommodation and needs at least as much security as that would afford - a period of decent notice, especially as she is currently paying his mortgage for him

As said, personally I'd be putting the mortgage share into a separate account for now, but realistically she'd have her "notice" even if he went tomorrow

After all she's in the house, and even relatives can't just physically chuck someone out. They'd need the courts for that, and as we all know court action takes time

@C8H10N4O2

Its incredible just how many people cannot look past their internalised misogyny to actually read the OP's post.

If one person gives up the security of a tenancy agreement to move into a partner's mortgage property and contributes half their mortgage payments then at the very least that new partner should have a decent agreement about notice periods, preferably a proper tenancy agreement or an agreement to buy into the property.

If they live together for 20 odd years with the second partner contributing to the mortgage of that property then at the least they should get the right to live there with the property going eventually to the owner's chosen beneficiaries. Frankly if the new partner is being asked to pay half the mortgage for 20 yrs with no interest in the property at all they are better off mortgaging their own place to protect their own DCs' inheritance.

It doesn't matter which way around the sexes are, its just that in practice women are less likely to protect themselves financially and are more likely to move into and pay for the man's property.

I totally agree.

The total financial cluelessness involved in some of the responses is also incredible. Which is presumably why so many women end up fucked over financially by men.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

even if he dropped dead tomorrow she has given up her contracted accommodation and needs at least as much security as that would afford - a period of decent notice, especially as she is currently paying his mortgage for him

As said, personally I'd be putting the mortgage share into a separate account for now, but realistically she'd have her "notice" even if he went tomorrow

After all she's in the house, and even relatives can't just physically chuck someone out. They'd need the courts for that, and as we all know court action takes time

They could chuck her out, it would really depend if she had the steel to stay there against their wishes and let them resort to legal action.

They can certainly put it on the market, albeit subject to probate.

No, if he paid money then that would be cheaper than his current rent. honestly i'd think he was getting a good deal over renting

So you would be just fine taking a partner's money to pay half your mortgage and bills for 20 odd years knowing they would be thrown out with no notice in the event of your death? When they could be in their 60s, 70s, 80s? That isn't a life partner you are talking about its a renter providing you with additional benefits and you should give them a proper tenancy agreement with a suitable notice period and not pretend they are anything more than that.

@lilly7221w

There's never going to be a cohabitation agreement though is there? He owns the house, why would he sign it over?

My house is worth over 800K, do you think i'd move man in and give him a share or it?
No, if he paid money then that would be cheaper than his current rent. honestly i'd think he was getting a good deal over renting.
No he wouldn't own a share on my death, just like he wouldn't if he rented.

You don't have to sign over the house in a cohabitation agreement, that's the whole point. They can agree not to do that. But in that case, OP shouldn't be contributing to the mortgage, just bills and rent.

OP, in my relationship the roles are reversed. DP and I live in my house. We split bills and outgoings 50:50 apart from the mortgage, which I pay alone. DP is late 40s and has used the lack of housing costs to save a deposit for his own house. This is now rented out. We both feel that this gives him a level of financial security in the event of us splitting up. It means that he is not dependent on me or our relationship for a roof over his head, which feels like a much healthier situation.

Well I don't have a mortgage but yes, I will always love my children more than any new man.

Paying half a mortgage is much less than full rent, so yes a good deal.

That's not unusual is it? I didn't build a nest to give it anyone but my children.

OP has nothing but debt, she can't expect to walk in and demand a life interest. If she wants that she need to buy her own nest, or they buy together.

When I’ve brought it up he has simply said to trust that his kids/family wouldn’t see me having to move out immediately.

Oh dear. This isn't good.

Does he honestly believe this?

benefactor in my mums will so eventually I would be ok money wise

How can you be sure your mother won't need it for care in her old age ?

I see that your share of the outgoings includes his mortgage payments.

if we are together over 30 years and he died then yes of course I would expect that I wouldn’t be made homeless as a result.

It's good that you have checked this now as, as things stand, you might be able to make a claim but it would be very expensive and the outcome would be by no means certain and would defiantly wreck any relationship with his DC.

“The total financial cluelessness involved in some of the responses is also incredible. Which is presumably why so many women end up fucked over financially by men.”

Yep so true.

Its incredible just how many people cannot look past their internalised misogyny to actually read the OP's post.
It's not internalised misogyny at all.

I don't believe anyone should think they get dibs on another adult's assets unless BOTH parties actively agree to merge finances in a legally binding agreement.

If I was single in a year's time there's no way I'd be handing over my assets to a man I've been living with a couple of months, especially if he was paying off debts whilst complaining that he might have to use his spare cash to make his own financial plans.

I hate the idea that the solution to some people not getting clued up financially is to screw over other women who make an active decision to remain financially separate from a romantic partner.

The OP has several options:

1. Continue paying the mortgage on a property she has essentially no claim on (she's a matter of weeks into living with this man) and then take the chance of wanting to make a claim on the estate
2. Say she will pay towards bills and then use the money she isn't paying on mortgages on her own property, which would be doable given she has said she could currently afford a property of her own with her current outgoings
3. Decide that because she is getting a better deal financially than living alone (based on her posts) that she's going to continue with the current arrangement, and use her spare money to fund an investment property
4. Decide that she will only remain in a relationship with this man if he hands over his assets to her rather than his children based on cohabiting for a couple of months.
5. Decide she will only remain in a relationship with this man if he makes legally binding arrangements that she is adequately housed in the event of his death, even if this means prioritising her over his children (again when only been living together a couple of months)
6. Tell her partner that failure to do either 5 or 6 is a sign that he doesn't love her, doesn't care for her and if he loved her then he would. Tell him that she is utterly devastated at the idea of having to make her own financial provisions because he mustn't care if she has a roof over her head. Then hope the guilt trip works
7. Decide that as this man must not care about her and not care about her having a roof over her head, leave the relationship

There's a range of options available to her, especially as she has enough money to make her own financially independent plans.

@LolaSmiles
you missed off, "don't pay his mortgage only half the bills."

Like Op can demand terms! It's not her house, she pays what he requests or she's homeless.

More education is needed in schools, people are clueless.

LolaSmiles
you missed off, "don't pay his mortgage only half the bills."
Like Op can demand terms! It's not her house, she pays what he requests or she's homeless.
More education is needed in schools, people are clueless.

More education like take responsibility for your own finances or make informed choices before choosing to cohabit or don't expect the world to react well to attempts at emotionally guilt tripping a person to hand over their assets when you've lived with them a few weeks.

She chose to move in with a man into his house. She says herself that she's got a better deal than living alone (iirc)
She's upset and annoyed that she might have to use some of the thousands she has available a year to fund her own financial investments.

This isn't someone who is without options.
It's someone who is quite happy minimising her outgoings, paying off her debts and would rather spend her money on cars and holidays than her own financial security.

There's a reason why there's dozens of threads full of posters advising women to take responsibility for their own finances. Part is to try and educate other women into not being dependent on a man when they're in a vulnerable situation, the other is to guard against situations where some people seem to think fellow women should lose the ability to cohabit without blending assets to account for the fact that sadly some women are quick to want to claim their slice of a partner's pie.

[quote lilly7221w]@LolaSmiles
you missed off, "don't pay his mortgage only half the bills."

Like Op can demand terms! It's not her house, she pays what he requests or she's homeless.

More education is needed in schools, people are clueless.[/quote]
Oh wow.

That’s a great start for a viable partnership that.

Do as I say because you are living in my house otherwise you’ll end up homeless.
Not even the possibility to discuss the situation (eg if there is a big income difference) or the validity of the terms. Because it’s his way or the highway.

If anyone was doing that to me, that would be the end of the relationship. It would have all the flags of the start of financial abuse written all over it.

@lilly7221w worth remembering that the OP’s partner ALSO benefits from the arrangement and will have lower overheads because she is living with him….

The arrangement benefits BOTH OF THEM there.

Lots of different views here - I clearly state in my original post that I don’t expect him to sign his house etc over to me at all - I’m not interested in anything he has financially which isn’t much and I’m certainly not a money grabber - eventually hopefully I will have assets that will be signed over to my children - however in the instance that he did die and I had been paying towards the house for decades, I would hope that I wouldn’t be immediately turfed out - his idea of me just trusting his word that this wouldn’t happen leaves me potentially one day in a very difficult predicament

I’ve had a chat with my mum today because I’ve been so worried - she’s thankfully well off enough that her house wouldn’t need to be touched if she required care, she has extremely good pensions that would cover care - her mortgage is paid off etc - so to a certain extent I can be fairly certain I’d have something from her

I have however decided to save for a BTL - just something small, little cottage, flat, just something to give a bit of security and just have it that the income matches the outgoings on it - im not interested in making money off it. As mentioned I have debts which will be paid off in maybe the next 6 months or so. As someone has stated they are ‘mysterious’ - not sure how a debt can be mysterious - they were acquired at having to sell my house at a huge loss. Long story - shared ownership scheme and after myself and DCs dad split I couldn’t afford to remortgage when the time period came up on it - house massively depreciated in value too (Really low salary at the time)

@LolaSmiles

Its incredible just how many people cannot look past their internalised misogyny to actually read the OP's post. It's not internalised misogyny at all.

I don't believe anyone should think they get dibs on another adult's assets unless BOTH parties actively agree to merge finances in a legally binding agreement.

If I was single in a year's time there's no way I'd be handing over my assets to a man I've been living with a couple of months, especially if he was paying off debts whilst complaining that he might have to use his spare cash to make his own financial plans.

I hate the idea that the solution to some people not getting clued up financially is to screw over other women who make an active decision to remain financially separate from a romantic partner.

The OP has several options:

1. Continue paying the mortgage on a property she has essentially no claim on (she's a matter of weeks into living with this man) and then take the chance of wanting to make a claim on the estate
2. Say she will pay towards bills and then use the money she isn't paying on mortgages on her own property, which would be doable given she has said she could currently afford a property of her own with her current outgoings
3. Decide that because she is getting a better deal financially than living alone (based on her posts) that she's going to continue with the current arrangement, and use her spare money to fund an investment property
4. Decide that she will only remain in a relationship with this man if he hands over his assets to her rather than his children based on cohabiting for a couple of months.
5. Decide she will only remain in a relationship with this man if he makes legally binding arrangements that she is adequately housed in the event of his death, even if this means prioritising her over his children (again when only been living together a couple of months)
6. Tell her partner that failure to do either 5 or 6 is a sign that he doesn't love her, doesn't care for her and if he loved her then he would. Tell him that she is utterly devastated at the idea of having to make her own financial provisions because he mustn't care if she has a roof over her head. Then hope the guilt trip works
7. Decide that as this man must not care about her and not care about her having a roof over her head, leave the relationship

There's a range of options available to her, especially as she has enough money to make her own financially independent plans.

This is all true but I don't think OP is that bothered about the specifics of the house. More about her partner's cavalier attitude - that he's happy to leave her reliant on his children's goodwill. Or that she thought they were 'building a life together' and he was like nope.

Of course we don't know the tone of the conversation, but I can see the thought entering her head, mentioning to DP and him going 'kids won't make you move out'. A better reply would be something like 'we'll see' or 'it's too early to think about that'.

Maybe that IS indeed what he meant, and all of this is a mountain out of a molehill but OP has gotten some good advice.

@LostForIdeas
But that's how it is. it's not financial abuse, that's the agreement.

Yes. He benefits from reduced overheads, of course he does, but so does OP.

It's really simple, he has equity, she does not.

In his position would I hand over equity...no! would I sign over lifetime interest? No.
if I die at 55, do I want to lock my children out of their inheritance and lumber them with dealing with potential issues of a house that may not be maintained for potentially 40 years. No.

I feel for op but that's the reality of life. she has nothing, attempting to jump on his equity and demanding a life interest is not realistic. that's why women end up fucked.

Sort your own financial nest, don't rely on someone else.

Definitely stop paying HIS mortgage, and only your share of the bills. He must have gained hugely from you moving in and paying half his mortgage. You could put the money you save towards a house to rent out. Knowing you could move in if and when you need to, or put it into a good pension. So you know you will always be able to rent again.

@susan123
And if he says no? they made an agreement, why do you think she can change it?

I do really appreciate the differences of views - can completely understand people being opposed to my feelings that I shouldn’t be turfed out in my old age if paying towards everything - and where others have seen this happen to others it’s really brought it home as being a massive potential

As someone has mentioned it has been his attitude towards it that’s been the problem - I had mentioned when I was moving in that I would like one day to possibly own a property again but when we looked into it a lot more (25% deposit) plus the potential of having a bad tenant - I rented my old house out for less than a year and it was trashed - it just felt like a lot of heartache really and we agreed it wasn’t something I wouldn’t need to do - after all we have somewhere to live and BTL can be risky. So for it now to be suddenly something I have no option but to do is quite an annoyance.

We had actually planned for me to buy a lodge somewhere for us all to use as a family - weekends away, school holidays etc - we had even planned to go and see a site we love in a few weeks for me to start financially planning and had registered our interest but this is now a firm nope from me

I will also be reconsidering his plans for us to fully recarpet the house, do the bathroom, bedroom etc….. him wanting these things paid for between us - after all he has made it clear that it’s his house