DNR order on kids with disabilities

[2021s]

Sorry about the daily mail link but this is too shocking not to share. DNR orders placed on teenagers with learning disabilities during pandemic in England.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10346479/GPs-offered-teenage-patients-learning-disabilities-not-resuscitate-orders.html?fbclid=IwAR2Moljqum74qgnOkCbldVPCng0tUA9IWfUs6loTQQXdZBX_x9wGNk844jo

This is terrifying that it would ever be considered.

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10346479/GPs-offered-teenage-patients-learning-disabilities-not-resuscitate-orders.html?fbclid=IwAR2Moljqum74qgnOkCbldVPCng0tUA9IWfUs6loTQQXdZBX_x9wGNk844jo

is the issue that they were offered to the teenager, rather than the parent?

No. The issue is that they were offered it at all. That the life of a person with autism or Down’s syndrome is considered less valuable than the rest of society and therefore not worth saving. There is no way that this is anything other than horrifying.

but those with life limiting conditions are offered a dnr, or at least their parents are. it is standard practice.

The people doubting the story because it’s in the Mail and presumably not the Guardian! It is true, if you can be bothered there’s this thing called Google. Stop minimising. It wasn’t just for life limiting conditions.

come on we are no living in nazi times,
there is more to this, but it makes headlines

I was just pointing out the op states DNR orders placed on teenagers with learning disabilities during pandemic in England

It was offered. Not placed. The post is misleading.

Fine. You find out what the more to this is and link it.

what about the elderly?
plenty of elderly people have dnr

@MrsLargeEmbodied

but those with life limiting conditions are offered a dnr, or at least their parents are. it is standard practice.

But it's not just those with life limiting conditions.

Autism doesn't effect your life span.

i imagine it is autism along with other problems

A DNR is not a 'do not treat' (that is a separate issue) CPR is brutal on the body and not particularly successful. It isn't always in the best interests of the individual to attempt CPR.

In this situation the blanket policy was what was wrong, not the fact it was a DNR.

@MrsLargeEmbodied

but those with life limiting conditions are offered a dnr, or at least their parents are. it is standard practice.

It's not standard practice for people with life limiting conditions. Nor did either teenager mentioned in the Telegraph article have a life limiting condition.

Isn't the whole point that resuscitation is an incredibly invasive and aggressive procedure and that there are people with disabilities/health conditions for whom it's not necessarily something they might want?

My daughter had to be ventilated as a baby and it was horrible. Her whole body had to be put into essentially muscle paralysis to be able to do it, and the cocktail of sedatives and other drugs she was on was horrific, weaning her off the opiates in particular was awful.

There's a reason it's a last resort and not taken lightly.

@Whitefire
well said, it is not a Do not treat

*I was just pointing out the op states DNR orders placed on teenagers with learning disabilities during pandemic in England

It was offered. Not placed. The post is misleading.*

If you read the article or any article of the daily mail link doesn’t appeal then it is suggested that in some cases they were placed without meaningful conversation in some cases.
I agree that I should have used the word “offered” in my original Post title but having read about it it does seem that in some cases they were actually placed, not offered.

come on we are no living in nazi times,

Please watch the recent documentary on the DWP's treatment of people with disabilities, and the number of people that have taken their own lives as a result of this disgraceful behaviour.

For many of us that have disabilities, it does feel like we're living in little better than nazi times.

It was not for life limiting conditions. Do you struggle with reading comprehension?

Awful to read ,I'm the parent of a child who has severe autism and learning disabilities,but is otherwise incredibly healthy ,his life matters just as much as anyone's

I don’t believe this happened, a teenager with severe learning difficulties would not have the capacity to make that decision. A parent or guardian might give consent, trauma of the procedure is not really important because the patient is sedated

@MrsLargeEmbodied

i imagine it is autism along with other problems

It's not, it is very clear in the article that the boy with autism and LD is healthy and has no underlying health problems

I don't find this shocking, tbh. As other have said, autism and Downs syndrome are not life limiting. Anyone who is at the point of needing resuscitation has some major health issue. The DNR orders were offered, not forced. I'm fairly sure my autistic daughter would jump at the chance to not be resuscitated, should something happen to her.

it is suggested that in some cases they were placed without meaningful conversation in some cases

Again..suggested, offered.
Not placed, made to ...or accurate.

@DeepaBeesKit

Isn't the whole point that resuscitation is an incredibly invasive and aggressive procedure and that there are people with disabilities/health conditions for whom it's not necessarily something they might want?

My daughter had to be ventilated as a baby and it was horrible. Her whole body had to be put into essentially muscle paralysis to be able to do it, and the cocktail of sedatives and other drugs she was on was horrific, weaning her off the opiates in particular was awful.

There's a reason it's a last resort and not taken lightly.

But we can't cherry pick the learning disabled population as those who we ask about it. That's discriminatory. Especially in the context of DNRs being made for people with learning disabilities without any consultation.

i cant read the daily mail link because it freezes on my computer

There is ample evidence that blanket DNRs have been placed on people simply because they are disabled and not because a DNR is appropriate.

Having LD or asd is not in itself a reason for a DNR and yet this has been happening.

www.openaccessgovernment.org/blanket-dnr/122280/

www.autismeye.com/do-not-resuscitate-dnr-scandal/

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-52217868

www.hsj.co.uk/coronavirus/unprecedented-number-of-dnr-orders-for-learning-disabilities-patients/7027480.article

managementinpractice.com/news/blanket-dnr-orders-for-people-with-learning-disabilities-and-autism-never-acceptable-warns-nhs-england/

@MrsLargeEmbodied

i imagine it is autism along with other problems

Oh well that's ok than 🙄