WWYD heart attack and no ambulance?

[1wokeuplikethis]

This is what happened to our family today. My dad had a heart attack, I phoned 999 and I was put on hold. I’ve heard about this but never thought it actually happens. When I finally got through they said an ambulance would take 2hrs so I can wait or take him myself. Nearest hospital is 30mins away, so I needed my husband to drive so I could be there if dad went unconscious but seriously, WHAT DO YOU DO? I thought, the shop nearby has a defibrillator outside, should I take that? But I don’t know if you can take them. It was busy A roads the whole journey with speed cameras and every light was red- do you go through them? If dad had gone unconscious in the car, do you stop and pull him out on the wet road to do CPR? Carry on to hospital?

I felt so helpless. You always think an ambulance is round the corner but what if it isn’t and you’re just an average joe with no medical knowledge?

Please please tell me, what would you do in that circumstance? I was not prepared.

Also there's a lot of talk of defib machines on the thread, we had a healthcare professional come and do training at work and he said in many emergencies defib machine is not appropriate because it only helps reset your heart if it's out of rhythm, and most heart problems he saw were not this. It doesn't restart your heart.
So it's not a universal panacea for any chest issue.

@LizzieSiddal

I’m blaming the Govt because this isn’t due to Covid, it’s been going on for years. Ambulances are regularly stacked up outside A&E departments

Hear hear! STOP voting for the Tory’s and the NHS WILL be better. I’m old enough to remember when Tony Blair got in the NHS was in a dreadful state after a decade of the Tory’s. Labour ploughed money into the NHS and it vastly improved. As soon as Cameron came in budgets were slashed again. They don’t care because they can afford to go privately.

Whaaat?

Tony Blair wanted to sell-off the NHS !!

@saltinesandcoffeecups

Depends where in USA! In cities a yes very quick but you are charged a fortune so there's excess capacity basically. In rural areas not so much, was advised to drive dd when she broke her leg 2.5 hours to a hospital

@winewolfhowls

Also there's a lot of talk of defib machines on the thread, we had a healthcare professional come and do training at work and he said in many emergencies defib machine is not appropriate because it only helps reset your heart if it's out of rhythm, and most heart problems he saw were not this. It doesn't restart your heart. So it's not a universal panacea for any chest issue.

I agree "you can't start a flat heart".

But a defib machine is one more tool, in the community, to help cardiac issues.

Tony Blair wanted to sell-off the NHS !!

Well I’m not sure about that. If that’s true whilst he was thinking about that he improved the NHSS beyond anything the Tory’s has done. I remember beige eLabour came in people were dying whilst in waiting lists for operations such as heart bypasses. Today under this government, people are dying waiting for ambulances.

Lack of access to GP care has been a driving factor - the absolute readiness and glee with which GPs slammed shut their doors in March 2020 and abdicated care is sickening

@1wokeuplikethis

I’m sorry to scare anyone, I don’t know if it’s the same everywhere but it’s been a horrible, horrendous experience and now dad is ok I’m sat here trying to comprehend everything that’s happened today.

Sadly it's the same everywhere.

In Scotland for the last 2 months there's been story after story about people dying waiting 2 days for an ambulance or lying in agony with broken bones fir days waiting for help.

To be fair, I've never experienced (or know anyone that has) ambulance wait times longer than minutes

I live in a town where the streets are very narrow and most of the town centre is one way. Delivery drivers have no option but to block them on occasion.

A couple of years ago (pre-Covid), it took 15 minutes for an ambulance to travel the 2 miles from the ambulance station to my road, simply because of congestion. And we're 8 miles from the nearest hospital, which will take at least 10 minutes even in ideal conditions.

Like you, OP, I called an ambulance for MIL a couple of months back. Heart related. Was put on hold just like ringing bank etc.

TBH I was surprised - I didn't know this could happen.

MIL now fine, after hospital

OP I’m so sorry for your experience, I’m sure you must be traumatised and I think you did the right thing. I really hope your dad is ok.
I really do think this is down to the governments serious underfunding for many years. My brother is an accountant for the NHS and funding in real terms goes down every year. Then the utter abandonment of the social care system means that although people are ready to leave hospital there are no beds in social care which is where they need to go so they have no choice but to stay in hospital using beds. Add on to that Brexit and decreased number of European staff that used to keep the system going too.
However, we do all need to try and use the system better too. People who ring for a broken arm, I’m sorry but maybe, if we have transport, we get them there ourselves, even if that does mean a £10 taxi ride. I’m speaking as someone whose daughter broke her shoulder in the middle of the forest this year, I took her to hospital myself. Anything where I guess you can be moved you need to try and go yourself? It’s an awful position to be in, I’d be terrified of taking someone with a heart attack though. I will be signing myself up to a St Johns Ambulance or similar course, maybe lots more of us need to do that?
If you believe Twitter Rushi Sunak has been in the USA this Christmas break meeting American health care providers to try and work out how to implement their system over here. I guess the best thing we can do to help the NHS is vote out the Tories too?

I think we have to get away from the NHS IS FREE mantra. Start charging people, not American style, but European style for GP appointments at least. Too many people abusing the system and calling ambulances as if they are taxis.

OP I think it's imperative you write to your MP and to the CEO of the ambulance service where you live.

Perhaps we should all make a sign to bung in car if necessary. Sick person in car. No ambulance available. Police may act as an escort but don't stop this car for speeding.

I work in the NHS and I'd have shoved him in the car and would drive like hell. Early treatment is essential.
You can find defibrillator locations along the way here:
www.heartsafe.org.uk/aed-locations

I'd write to my local MP, and PALS about what you went through. Be as emotive as you need.

My husband had a serious leg break and I drove him to hospital. I'm a nervous driver and the length of time, traffic, his pain etc meant it was a horrific journey- and that was without the life and death aspect and serious nature.

It's normal to feel traumatised, take some time to process.

@LizzieSiddal

Tony Blair wanted to sell-off the NHS !!

Well I’m not sure about that. If that’s true whilst he was thinking about that he improved the NHSS beyond anything the Tory’s has done. I remember beige eLabour came in people were dying whilst in waiting lists for operations such as heart bypasses. Today under this government, people are dying waiting for ambulances.

OK so let's all bash the government and see how that helps the OP

Thinking of you and your DD

My Dad recently had a heart attack the ambulance was there in 15 minutes, Dad didn't survive the heart attack those 15 minutes were terrifying waiting, the 999 call handler was amazing helping us with CPR.
It must be awful on the staff in the centre trying to allocate jobs, knowing someone had a fall 7 hours before.
The staff trained help people when they don't have the resources to save lives.

OK so let's all bash the government and see how that helps the OP

So you’re suggesting we don’t speak about why people in this country can’t rely on an ambulance in a life threatening emergency?

There were a couple of cases in Scotland recently where cancer patients died while waiting for ambulances for chemo complications. One of them was found dead when the ambulance turned up 2 days later. So I've stopped drinking since DH was diagnosed, so I can be ready to take him in myself if something goes wrong. It's still a 30 minute drive from here in good traffic and good weather and of course I wouldn't be able to help him in any way en route. It's absolutely terrifying.

I'd set fire to myself before I defend the Tories but this is in Scotland, where the NHS is devolved and has been the responsibility of the SNP for the past decade.

Some fire services do act as First Responders here, but it's a local decision (Fire are still organised by county for the most part). However, what they can do is limited and they can't transport patients to hospital.

Our county did have Fire Responders for a bit, responding to C1 and some C2 calls but stopped for a number of reasons

• being called out a lot for jobs that turned out to be something they couldn't deal with/weren't needed for/didn't need a C1 or C2 response
• if they wanted to be medics they'd have joined ambulance or the NHS (there was a bit of leakage with firepeople deciding to become paramedics). The whole fire + paramedic model is completely alien over here
• defensive unions resisting change

Lime much of the NHS that I see ambulance are caught in a vice: on the one side they are slammed by underfunding/excessive demand but on the other side they are held back by cumbersome, risk-averse, insular, top-down approaches to management and innovation. Some of the practices I see, and management quality, are horrifying and wouldn't be tolerated for a minute in a commercial organisation. It's very sad.

So when you say he was having a heart attack what do you mean? Was he conscious, breathing, chest pain? If he had one a week ago was he seen, prescribed meds or have a stay in hospital? There are different scenarios.

I’m so sorry you’ve had to go through this. I really hope your dad will be ok. What a horrible thing to have to go through.

The NHS is a fucking disgrace right now. I have a friend who had a serious accident last week and had to wait an hour for an ambulance to come. She’s still in huge amounts of pain with broken bones and has to wait at home for another TWO WEEKS for a simple consultation for an operation.

My dad is terminally ill and at end of life. My mum has spent a total of 5 hours waiting to speak to someone on 111 twice this week. She’s struggled to get much medical assistance for my dad’s situation. It’s like being in a 3rd world country, and I’ve never witnessed anything like it before. It’s incredibly worrying and very distressing.

I’m in a part of the country, where 2 years ago our local health authority was fantastic.

Basically, just don’t get ill or need medical treatment. Probably for the next 10 years.

How terrifying for you all. I think at the moment it’s not uncommon. I know of several instances where people have had to wait at least four or five hours. I know of a 90 odd year old lady falling in the street and waiting over four hours, lying in the pouring rain. She had a broken hip and couldn’t move.

It’s totally horrific when it’s a heart attack. The only feasible thing is to bundle him in the car and take him yourself. It sounds like you did a great job.

I’m not surprised you feel traumatised. I would too. Hope your dad is ok.

@LizzieSiddal I think it is helpful to try and work out how we got in such a mess actually precisely because none of us want to be in this position the OP was in although it will take years to reform it and a shake up of how we use it too.

I was always told to give the person having a suspected heart attack an aspirin but only one person has suggested this in the thread... is it still recommended?