WWYD heart attack and no ambulance?

[1wokeuplikethis]

This is what happened to our family today. My dad had a heart attack, I phoned 999 and I was put on hold. I’ve heard about this but never thought it actually happens. When I finally got through they said an ambulance would take 2hrs so I can wait or take him myself. Nearest hospital is 30mins away, so I needed my husband to drive so I could be there if dad went unconscious but seriously, WHAT DO YOU DO? I thought, the shop nearby has a defibrillator outside, should I take that? But I don’t know if you can take them. It was busy A roads the whole journey with speed cameras and every light was red- do you go through them? If dad had gone unconscious in the car, do you stop and pull him out on the wet road to do CPR? Carry on to hospital?

I felt so helpless. You always think an ambulance is round the corner but what if it isn’t and you’re just an average joe with no medical knowledge?

Please please tell me, what would you do in that circumstance? I was not prepared.

I’m blaming the Govt because this isn’t due to Covid, it’s been going on for years. Ambulances are regularly stacked up outside A&E departments

Hear hear! STOP voting for the Tory’s and the NHS WILL be better. I’m old enough to remember when Tony Blair got in the NHS was in a dreadful state after a decade of the Tory’s. Labour ploughed money into the NHS and it vastly improved. As soon as Cameron came in budgets were slashed again. They don’t care because they can afford to go privately.

@CheshireKitten123

"I don't want a lockdown but we do need something to help this situation"

So what do you expect the government to do about it ?

Exactly. As PP said, there are queues of ambulances at a&e and wards full so nowhere to put more patients. Even if there could be more funding for more staff, the answer would seem to be to build more hospitals to increase capacity which is not going to happen overnight.

But right now, covid is adding to the numbers going into hospital so ambulance waits are longer but people dont want to lockdown to reduce this.

@chaosrabbitland

im glad your dad is ok , i dont know what i would have done in that situation either , its just crap ,the old days of phoning an ambulance and it actually getting there in a few minutes are long gone , its just so unacceptable , but nothing we can do about it , in 2018 my mum had a bad fall on my garden path shes 84 , broke her collor bone , lying there in agony and it took a good hour before they got there , she was face down on the path , freezing cold , had to put 3 mink fleeces over her , and every time i rang back to see how much longer it was the same old stuff , ambulance was on the way , got divirted , i felt like screaming down the phone at the dispatcher even tho its nothing to do with them how long it takes ,

id rather have a reformed nhs along the french / german model even if it meant we payed into it more ,for a service thats fit for purpose

As pp have said, there is not 'nothing we can do about it'.

1. Stop voting Tory.
2. Educate everybody you know about the link between taxes and healthcare/social care funding so they will understand that higher taxes = better public services.
3. Stop everybody you know voting Tory - barricade them in their homes on election day if you must.
4. Explain to everybody you know who voted for Brexit that they share responsibility for current NHS staff shortages.
5. Vote for a party that will increase NHS pay to at least the level of inflation and reinstate the bursary for student nurses. Clue: that won't be the Tories.
6. Do not compare favourably to the US. The reason they can get an ambulance quicker is that fewer people call one, because of the cost. Many people cannot afford medical insurance, insurance doesn't cover everything anyway and inability to pay healthcare bills is the single biggest reason for personal bankruptcy in the US.
7. Get angry. Not with call handlers or A&E staff. With the government. Sick people were waiting on trolleys in hospital corridors during the Tory government of the 90s. That stopped during the Labour years (and I am no fan of New Labour but it's a fact) and further years of Tory disdain for anything publicly funded have now put us back there, but many times worse.
8. Be sure to tell anyone who won't get Covid vaxxed that they're ignorant and dangerous and should not be allowed out of the house.
9. Start again at 1.

This is so sad and I'm so glad your dad is okay- but isn't uncommon anymore! DH spent his shift the other week waiting outside an out of area hospital for 6 hours while he hear about 25 "broadcasts" for urgently needed ambulances. And then someone phoned with a bad chest, cough and temperature (so covid..), its a combination of the system failing and people wasting ambulance time! Amazingly this isn't the worst he's seen it in 7 years on the job

@KloppsTeeth

I’m so sorry this has happened, it must’ve been very scary.

This area is desperate for student paramedics, I might look in to signing up. Mid forties, and I’d need someone to look after my disabled son whilst I was at work, but they need more people, and it is something I could very well do. 🤔

I think the issue is lack of student training places not lack of applications. It’s very competitive to get on the course as hundreds of people chasing a small number of places. They can’t expand places as they need enough placement places (ie ambulances and qualified staff) for training.

This area is desperate for student paramedics, I might look in to signing up. Could you say roughly what area you are in? My sister has recently qualified as a paramedic. I took her to all her uni open days where everyone was told "don't expect to get in first or second time" as it's so competitive. People want to become paramedics but the government won't provide the jobs so there was no point training people when there would be no job for them at the end.

@WeWantTheFinestWines and number 10 keep ambulances free for emergencies, use other health care services for minor things like a three week old back ache!

I'm so glad your dad is OK, how scary for all of you. I am so shocked that the operator didn't say on the phone tbh, surely they have a duty of care? If I was in your position I don't think I would have waited, I would have driven.

I have (ridiculously) managed attacks of extreme pain at home for years - in my defence, I am a nurse, and I know that the pain caused by my condition will eventually stop after about 10 hours, so long as I don't suffer a perforation. I would 100 % expect others to present in A!E. On the 21st I had an attack like no other - I was crawling the floor, I couldn't speak coherently, I couldn't hold a glass of water as I was shaking so much and my teeth were chattering. My partner was told 4 hours for an ambulance. He was very frightened, having known me for over 30 years, and knowing how I manage pain. We had to get my frightened child out of bed to drive to hospital at 2am. My treatment in A/E was appalling. It was hours before I saw a doctor - I only saw a nurse practitioner in terms of A/E. I eventually saw a surgeon and things got better from there. The lack of compassion from staff in A/E, for someone in such extreme pain was astounding. As a nurse, looking back, I am mortified on their behalf and for the sake of other patients. OP, I am so sorry you and your father have gone through this. I can honestly say I too would have struggled to know which course of action to take. Waiting for treatment reduces chances of survival - however walking someone out to a car who is having a heart attack, is hardly a safe option. You did what you thought was best, in a very traumatic situation. 💐XX

Also there wouldn't be the resources for shadowing/third manning/mentoring etc.

@EllaVaNight

This area is desperate for student paramedics, I might look in to signing up. Could you say roughly what area you are in? My sister has recently qualified as a paramedic. I took her to all her uni open days where everyone was told "don't expect to get in first or second time" as it's so competitive. People want to become paramedics but the government won't provide the jobs so there was no point training people when there would be no job for them at the end.

Yes courses are always oversubscribed, same with midwifery, willing students isn't the problem (although retention is but applies to everyone in healthcare). The issue is largely that there aren't enough mentors in an over stretched service to be able to provide adequate support and training whilst on placement for more, so a bit of a viscous circle I guess.

I would drive him as fast as safe to do so. No skipping red lights as a crash would only make things worse. Ideally one drive and a passenger to attend to him. No good waiting for ambulance that long

@DontKnowWhatToThink7

I'm so glad your dad is OK, how scary for all of you. I am so shocked that the operator didn't say on the phone tbh, surely they have a duty of care? If I was in your position I don't think I would have waited, I would have driven.

It depends on how many calls are coming in really. I used to take 999 calls, if we had the chance to stay on with people and they wanted us to we would, but when calls are flying in and 999 calls are not being answered within the time window of 3 seconds, you unfortunately have to leave calls sooner than you perhaps usually would.

I would have put him in the car and headed off to the hospital at (safe as possible) speed.

Glad to hear he is doing ok.

My DH has a heart condition.
We live about 5 mins from an A&E, but he would (and has) be transferred to a specialist Cardiac centre about 20 miles away by ambulance for anything more than monitoring.
We'd love to move to somewhere more rural, but having the security of being able to get him there really quickly it would be faster if I broke the speed limit should (when) he needs it keeps us here.

I’m so sorry this happened to you, this is my biggest fear. Please make sure you speak to a counsellor to process what you went through yesterday, I know that may seem a little ott but it’s so important to process any trauma fully so it’s dealt with and doesn’t consciously or unconsciously effect you on an ongoing basis. I’m so glad he’s doing ok and received excellent care when he arrived. I’m sorry for the loss of your Mum too.

Defibrillators in public places are in boxes locked with security codes. When somebody calls 999 and tells the call assessor that somebody is in cardiac arrest/they're unconscious with ineffective breathing, the call assessor will be able to see on their screen where the nearest public access defibrillator is and if there is one nearby and there is somebody able to go and collect it while somebody else is performing CPR, then the call assessor can provide the code to access the defib. They can't just be taken out by anybody.

This isn't usually the case @SetFreeTheKites, some may have a code if privately owned but most do not and are available for all to use. They can be taken from scene but must obviously be returned after the incident. We get the occasional one nicked but having them locked up costs lives.

[quote Amijustagrump]@WeWantTheFinestWines and number 10 keep ambulances free for emergencies, use other health care services for minor things like a three week old back ache![/quote]

Absolutely. More GPs would help with that but they're in huge crisis as well.

OP, I really feel for you. My Dad had a heart attack and actually had a GP with him in the house. Things turned from bad to worse and GP told my Mum to get on the phone immediately to basically tell them they had to send the delayed ambulance now. She was told the ambulance assigned to him was currently on an emergency call out to a child. This is going back years ago to a labour government - seems like nothing has changed.

@EbonanzaScrooge

This is extremely easy for me because I have actually worked with the NHS out of hours and I’ve been on hold many a time trying to get through to 999.

My advice is always if you can and it’s safe take the patient to hospital yourself. Blame your government for this.

I don't blame the government as much as I blame the twats that voted for them. Ten years of austerity and under-investment has led to huge pressures on the NHS.

Things were bad before Covid, but with more people being ill, staff off sick or isolating and longer turnaround times because of the need to make sure that the ambulances are thoroughly cleaned between calls, it's no wonder that waiting times are so long.

My MIL waited 7 hours for an ambulance the weekend before last. She had pneumonia and pleurisy and was struggling to breathe. It took 8 hours between them calling 111 and a doctor deciding that she needed an ambulance, so she'd been short of oxygen for 15 hours. Her SATs were 90% when the paramedics arrived.

I'm sorry you had such an awful experience, OP, and hope your dad makes a good recovery.

I was in A and E recently and what really struck me was not only the 12 hour wait time but also that so many people there could have been better seen elsewhere. Lots of elderly people who had a fall and for example a cut to the head, but were cold and alone, broken wrists, etc and i did wonder what had happened to minor injuries. Im sure that was a thing once, about 5 years ago I went with suspected broken wrist about ten at night and was seen in a few hours and put in a cast. I can remember them doing a lot of patching people up and checking for other injuries there.
When at a and e they read a list aloud and said that those people would not be eligible to see a doctor for about 5hrs,and at least 4 people then immediately left. Poor nurses were run ragged not to mention the usual drunks and rowdy people.

@winewolfhowls

I was in A and E recently and what really struck me was not only the 12 hour wait time but also that so many people there could have been better seen elsewhere. Lots of elderly people who had a fall and for example a cut to the head, but were cold and alone, broken wrists, etc and i did wonder what had happened to minor injuries. Im sure that was a thing once, about 5 years ago I went with suspected broken wrist about ten at night and was seen in a few hours and put in a cast. I can remember them doing a lot of patching people up and checking for other injuries there. When at a and e they read a list aloud and said that those people would not be eligible to see a doctor for about 5hrs,and at least 4 people then immediately left. Poor nurses were run ragged not to mention the usual drunks and rowdy people.

Lots of local out of hours services have closed which is a big part of the problem, and minor injuries. Its always been a bit well they can go to A&E who will have to cope, but it's reaching the point if it hasn't already that they can't cope.

'Hear hear! STOP voting for the Tory’s and the NHS WILL be better. I’m old enough to remember when Tony Blair got in the NHS was in a dreadful state after a decade of the Tory’s. Labour ploughed money into the NHS and it vastly improved.'

Bollocks. Blair gave GPs their pisstaking contract where they could opt out of out of hours cover, directly causing the problems we have today in primary care provision. People go directly to A&E, hogging the system because they cannot see their own gp.

Op, you need to be clear what you say when ringing 999. If you said he had severe chest pain, was breathless and struggling to speak for example I just cannot believe they'd leave him for 2 hours. If you did clearly describe the situation then put in a formal complaint.

I drove or rather exh drove my neighbour and I sat in the back with her, her dh sat in the front, we were at the hospital around 15 minutes after he knocked on the door, quicker than the 10 mins to get an ambulance (in good times) and 10 mins drive to hospital. Admittedly I would be more worried where I live now as it's nearer 30 mins and on motorway.

Driving is often the quickest option even pre pandemic so if safe to do so I would myself rather than wait for an ambulance

How awful OP. My DH had a heart attack last Christmas and we were very fortunate that an ambulance and a first responder came straightaway. That said, when he was taken away in the ambulance he was taken to a hospital 45 miles away when we have 3 other hospitals closer. It was really odd. I am sure there will have been a reason.

I do like watching Ambulance on BBC 1 but it is really alarming what the public will phone an ambulance for.