Why does 'wokeness' annoy people so much?

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Isn't it just trying to make the world a better place but making people feel accepted no matter their race, gender etc?

It seems to wind some people up so bad - and it's usually those that are part of a majority group that gets wound up most by it (usually white/men) - is it because they feel threatened?

Whenever anyone stands up for a cause they are automatically called woke - and it's now as if it's a bad thing.

It's sad, I see people fed up with 'wokeness' as code for 'we can't get away with our racist, sexist BS anymore as people are calling us out'.

@Confiscatedpopit

Agree with everyone else.

Virtue signaling number 1. They encompass all that is wrong with the internet and it’s impact.

They are doing it mainly from a place of trying to shame and condemn others. Whilst making out that they are so caring and considerate. If you challenge anything they don’t actually answer but just throw silly phrases out like ‘educate yourself’. Everything is so self-consciously done and it’s massively creeping into mainstream media.

The world to me has gone backwards 20 years because of this. It’s so divisive it’s unreal.

I hate 'educate yourself!' It's so patronising and a terrible substitute for an actual argument. What they really mean is 'Learn to think like me'.

"Stalin , hitter are still in peoples heads, those family histories that I mentioned , In movies, not just in books"

Oh dear, I see that the line "in books" is going to be treated in an obtuse way in order to strawman the meaning.

History is in books. It isn't erasing history to take a statue down. You'd have to destroy the source material for that.

Yes History can be in many places. But having Statues to people left in places because it would be erasing history to remove them is a fundamentally flawed argument because statues are not how we record history. Statues are how we glorify the memory of some people and the reason why they raised.

Cancel culture does not automatically succeed in its aims to cancel someone

Jk has been subjected to hateful abuse for no justifiable reason - more likely to have succeeded in cancelling if the abuse would stand up to cross examination

"All you're going to get in response is... but, but,but....!!!"

That wasn;t my response.

She's still not cancelled.

JK Rowling was shown at the renunion show in archival footage too. Surely cancelling someone would be removing their involment altogether.

Oh dear, that one didn't stand scrutiny either.

Well predicted and right on the money Hunter....😂

"Cancel culture does not automatically succeed in its aims to cancel someone"

I asked for an example of someone who has been cancelled.

JK Rowling hasn't.

@JohnHuffam1812

"All you're going to get in response is... but, but,but....!!!"

That wasn;t my response.

She's still not cancelled.

JK Rowling was shown at the renunion show in archival footage too. Surely cancelling someone would be removing their involment altogether.

Oh dear, that one didn't stand scrutiny either.

Bless.

Statues are how we glorify the memory of some people and the reason why they raised.
That's what I was going to put in my comment too but couldn't think how to say (Christmas food and wine fog head on )
Yes, that.

@GoatInCaptivity

Well predicted and right on the money Hunter....😂

I can't 🤣

@HunterHearstHelmsley

Aww your example didn't work, and the evidence you provided was flawed?

Not got a good response to it?

Just try to be patronising instead.

The fragility of your argument is very funny.

Perhaps we view statues differently?

I see them as people who were glorified or just plain rich in the past , I don't feel that I am expected to glorify them. A statue prompts questions like who were they , who put up the statue, why. What do they tell us bout the past

For example . When we see that most statues are middle aged white men, it tells us a lot about how racist and misogynistic society was. I saw a statue in Berwick the other day , it pulled me up short , and then I realised why... it was of a woman

People arguing for woke basically have a superiority complex. You can feel their contempt for those who disagree with them, even dripping from posts on here. It’s a a very specific, noticeable trait that the so-called woke possess. The ability to be completely unaware of their intolerance while telling others to exactly that. Woke people also don’t get irony, which never makes for reasoned conversation with someone.

Oh God, I need to go to bed, but I can't stop reading.

Fighting for a better world has become distinctly different than being ‘woke’. Reading the manifestos or plans of ‘woke’ organizations often feels like reading a fairytale or the demands of a petulant child. There is no sense actual plan, just pithy, often contradictory, demands. Real change takes effort and planning. You can’t just say things like ‘defund the police’ you need to make real proposals that can work in day to day life. Real change is hard work. It’s finding the budget to add social workers to every police station. It’s a cultural shift towards hiring officers with more education and training.

They are doing it mainly from a place of trying to shame and condemn others. Whilst making out that they are so caring and considerate. If you challenge anything they don’t actually answer but just throw silly phrases out like ‘educate yourself’. Everything is so self-consciously done and it’s massively creeping into mainstream media.

The world to me has gone backwards 20 years because of this. It’s so divisive it’s unreal.

Yep.

Self fulfilling prophecy? Is that the term I'm looking for?

[quote JohnHuffam1812]@HunterHearstHelmsley

Aww your example didn't work, and the evidence you provided was flawed?

Not got a good response to it?

Just try to be patronising instead.

The fragility of your argument is very funny.[/quote]
My example absolutely worked. Your rebuttal didn't.

Bless.

@JohnHuffam1812

"All you're going to get in response is... but, but,but....!!!"

That wasn;t my response.

She's still not cancelled.

JK Rowling was shown at the renunion show in archival footage too. Surely cancelling someone would be removing their involment altogether.

Oh dear, that one didn't stand scrutiny either.

Dude you need to be a little more nuanced in your understanding of what 'cancel culture' actually means. It doesn't mean someone is literally cancelled, or has contracts cancelled. It means others attempt to exclude them - culture does the heavy lifting in the expression. The bullying culture of excluding someone whose thoughts don't mirror your own.

Which you know of course - this is just your little way of attempting to dismiss the gender critical views of some here. A culture of 'cancelling' views if you like.

Perhaps you could familiarise yourself with the word irony?

I have long suspected that whether they are consciously aware of it or not a lot of white people don't truly want racial equality. So rendering words like 'woke' a pejorative is one such crafty technique to ensure that it never happens.

I think you are assuming most white people put any thought at all into racial equality. I don't think the majority think about it or care about enough to sabotage it in the way you are suggesting. Most white people are too busy living their own lives to care about racial inequality on any thing but a surface level. There is no big conspiracy just people living their own lives and letting others live theirs.

@bordermidgebite

Perhaps we view statues differently?

I see them as people who were glorified or just plain rich in the past , I don't feel that I am expected to glorify them. A statue prompts questions like who were they , who put up the statue, why. What do they tell us bout the past

For example . When we see that most statues are middle aged white men, it tells us a lot about how racist and misogynistic society was. I saw a statue in Berwick the other day , it pulled me up short , and then I realised why... it was of a woman

Errr, yes it’s an accurate depiction of how society used to be. So what?

Pressed too soon - and why should we continue to glorify mass murderers/abusers, just because it was deemed OK to be then, does that mean we should carry on having their statues in the streets?
I don't think history should be erased, but maybe displayed in a history museum would be better.

"A statue prompts questions like who were they , who put up the statue, why. What do they tell us bout the past"

The intention behind the statue is to glorify the memory of the person that it depicts.

Actually the Colston statue, now in a museum, makes a much better historical piece now than it did then.

The ones in the US were put up by supporters of segregation and denying black people equal rights as symbols of oppression, to glorify the memories of those who thought black people should remain slaves.

We've only had one statue torn down in this country, and it was controversial for year before that.

Although I think with the coloston statue in Bristol for example where he got very rich and I understand that by his time people mostly knew that the Africans they were trading were really humans , I am quite happy to see that dragged to a museum

So I may not be totally consistent

The intention at the time is not what we learn from them today