AIBU To wish that the media would ask which way people voted in the EU referendum when reporting problems of the farming and fishing industry caused by Brexit?

[Kendodd]

www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-humber-59748581.amp

Because if you voted Leave you are too stupid to be in business and don't deserve my sympathy.

Probably not a good idea to ask how people voted in the referendum. That would stir things up without any benefit.

Aggrieved leavers could sign the "seek to rejoin the EU single market and customs Union" or the "seek to rejoin the EU" petitions. At least that flags to Johnson that not everyone is happy with him.

The thing I can't believe is that Johnson took us out of the EU when the pandemic was already on the horizon and with enough news reports to show covid would be bad. We left the EU on 31st January 2020, a true statesman would have revoked article 50 to have the support (and to support) the rest of the EU during the pandemic. I mean clearly the answer is Johnson is incompetent, but that shouldn't be an excuse for a PM with regards to political decisions!

A true statesman, or the Churchill he wants to be, would have had the courage to face down the ERG.

Cameron didn't, and I think will go down in history as a complete failure. May I think might have been able to face down the ERG but wrecked her position by calling the election and losing her majority.

@OneRuleForThem

I have been told repeatedly by leave voters that they knew exactly what they voted for. I have been subject to abuse, I have seen xenophobic abuse and violence against my friends from EU countries

I have been subjected to anti-gay and racist verbal abuse and violent abuse and they have all been from people from non-UK EU countries (who may or may not be “your friends”). What is the point of your anecdotal stories? We all have them.

My anecdotal stories are examples of what people experienced up and down the country following the Brexit referendum. The result emboldened xenophobes to take these actions that did not occur before. The police statistics are clear that there was a spike in hate related incidents following the referendum.

And your point appears to be? That all EU citizens are homophobes?

@Pedalpushers

People are allowed to be wrong about things.

And they are allowed to be criticised for being wrong, especially if they steadfastly refuse to accept they are wrong and use lies and misinformation to deny evidence that they are wrong.

They are allowed to face the consequences of their decisions without expecting others to sort them out.

@Whingasaurus

I'm still waiting for my super gonorrhoea

Don't worry, Rishi was ignoring the pleas of English businesses to meet with big US private healthcare companies to flog of the NHS so it may well be coming. Either that or paying a grand for a plaster. All made so much easier without those pesky EU state aid rules.

I understand your feelings. However there comes a point where we need to accept the current position and move on from here . Constant blame and recriminations don't help people move forward .

They have also shown complete disregard for the peace in NI

Like Ursula von der Leyen did when threatening border interference because the EU didn't get its way over the jabs?
Best, sometimes, to be careful what you wish for with the EU

To answer the question though, ballots in the UK are private - which hopefully is what you'll be told if you approach people with this kind of attitude

They have also shown complete disregard for the peace in NI

Like the EU is showing disregard for Poland?

And they are allowed to be criticised for being wrong, especially if they steadfastly refuse to accept they are wrong and use lies and misinformation to deny evidence that they are wrong.

It must be lovely to be so convinced you're right.

They are allowed to face the consequences of their decisions without expecting others to sort them out.

I don't really see how this would work. In theory I'd like only the people who vote Tory to be subjected to Troy government but that's not really practical.

@AuntyBumBum

I actually have sympathy for most who voted to Leave because the lies and misinformation was really bad and not everyone has the time or education to accurately fact check things before voting. Many people I know who voted Leave are angry about the lies they believed in

It might help if they had the good grace to accept that they are responsible for the decision, because that's how direct democracy works, and that the rest of the country is angry with them because we have to suffer along with them for their, errm, lack of wisdom, rather than somehow making out that they are the victims.

Amongst my friends and family we have a split of how people voted.

In that circle people aren't angry with each other for how they voted in the referendum. We have accepted it and moved on.

I thought Rishi's story was that he was finding out about new cancer treatments? Yes, right. When he could have done that via zoom calls, and ought to have been here sorting out what assistance to give to the hospitality industry.

Bumping for the evening 'traffic' - you never know, someone might have something new to say.

I'll start - now I'm not fully conversant with the new UK farm subsidy proposals, at all, and would normally fully acquaint myself before passing comment, as there are so many variables to be read through but:

There is the possibility that the UK Govt might be bearing in mind the NZ example. Where all Direct Payment subsidies were withdrawn and payments were targeted to suit specific criteria through other 'industry' schemes. Apparently it worked, very few farms went bust and farming became a profitable industry again.

Just sayin'......

Did you get deleted @TheHateIsNotGood?
Did you say something hateful?

@TheHateIsNotGood

Bumping for the evening 'traffic' - you never know, someone might have something new to say.

I'll start - now I'm not fully conversant with the new UK farm subsidy proposals, at all, and would normally fully acquaint myself before passing comment, as there are so many variables to be read through but:

There is the possibility that the UK Govt might be bearing in mind the NZ example. Where all Direct Payment subsidies were withdrawn and payments were targeted to suit specific criteria through other 'industry' schemes. Apparently it worked, very few farms went bust and farming became a profitable industry again.

Just sayin'......

Farming subsidies are devolved.

Did i get deleted Ken? No idea, if i did it would be a rare thing in my 15 years on MN. Does it mean anything?

Hi derxa, nearly mentioned you in my post as you're a MNer that knows, even if you post '.'

When you say "farming subsidies are devolved" do you mean, within the UK nations, or as a ref to the NZ method?

Not sure why I'm asking as I should really look it up. There's an idea everybody, we should really look stuff up ourselves and read through all the small fine print before we comment on 'farming' shouldn't we.

Thanks dx of the .

YANBU. I have absolutely no sympathy for those who voted leave and regret it today. They listened blindly to the lies and misinformation without using any personal judgement which is totally irresponsible behaviour (politicians were equally irresponsible).
We know a fair amount of Brexiteers (not fishermen/farmers) and even them have failed to point to any tangible benefits of Brexit but they are too proud to admit their vote was a mistake.
We’re done with this country. Fortunately we are lucky to have a EU passeport and will soon be saying goodbye to the UK, bringing our high incomes and taxes with us.

Eleganz

The referendum was lost due to a well funded misinformation campaign and emotional appeals to latent nationalism as well as rampant entryism into the Tory party (that has only got worse since) as well as an exceptionally poor remain campaign run by people who weren't prepared to truly explain the benefits of EU membership.

For the remain campaign you forgot apathy and general name calling (thick, racist etc.) its always a good way to get people to vote for you. (also that the remain campaign said very little about NI although some now claim otherwise)

@TheHateIsNotGood

Hi derxa, nearly mentioned you in my post as you're a MNer that knows, even if you post '.'

When you say "farming subsidies are devolved" do you mean, within the UK nations, or as a ref to the NZ method?

Not sure why I'm asking as I should really look it up. There's an idea everybody, we should really look stuff up ourselves and read through all the small fine print before we comment on 'farming' shouldn't we.

Thanks dx of the .

Well I should be better informed about subsidies than I am. Yes farm payments are devolved I get a Single Farm Payment via the Scottish Govt. according to their criteria In the future we will likely have to prove that we are using our land in a more environmentally friendly way so planting more hedges and the like. www.cbd.int/doc/case-studies/inc/cs-inc-newzealand-technical-en.pdf#:~:text=The%20economy%20of%20New%20Zealand%20has%20historically%20been,than%20the%20costs%20of%20producing%20and%20processing%20it. Above is an interesting summary of what happened in New Zealand. Yes people on here use 'farmers' on here for their arguments knowing nothing about us. People like George Monbiot and James O'Brien are worse.

@jcyclops

The UK farming and fishing industries have been constantly complaining before we joined the EEC, during our membership, and since we left.

Plus ça change.

I don't know what it is about fishing, the French never stop moaning about it, either.

@Eleganz
My anecdotal stories are examples of what people experienced up and down the country following the Brexit referendum. The result emboldened xenophobes to take these actions that did not occur before. The police statistics are clear that there was a spike in hate related incidents following the referendum.

I thought my point was clear but perhaps not. It was that we all have anecdotal stories, we all have our own lives and tribulations, we all have things that happen to us that others don’t (or can’t) understand. My gay friends (and I) up and down the country have faced anti-gay abuse from EU nationals. Some of my non-white friends (and I) up and down the country have faced racist abuse from EU nationals. These incidents have been specifically from mostly citizens hailing from EU countries that doesn’t have an outlook on both of these things that we have here in the UK. I’m sure if we looked into police stats we would also see stats rising in accordance to the number of people from EU countries coming into this one.

And your point appears to be? That all EU citizens are homophobes?

And your point appears to be? That all UK citizens are violent anti-EU xenophobes? It’s easy to level blanket accusations at groups that aren’t truth. No, I’m not saying that all EU citizens are racist homophobes, far from it, but that doesn’t take anything away or make it any less real to what has happened over the many years to me and my friends subject from a certain criteria. It’s not all one side good, one side bad. Far, far from it.

@FrippEnos

Eleganz

The referendum was lost due to a well funded misinformation campaign and emotional appeals to latent nationalism as well as rampant entryism into the Tory party (that has only got worse since) as well as an exceptionally poor remain campaign run by people who weren't prepared to truly explain the benefits of EU membership.

For the remain campaign you forgot apathy and general name calling (thick, racist etc.) its always a good way to get people to vote for you. (also that the remain campaign said very little about NI although some now claim otherwise)

Also the mad racism and xenophobia of the leave campaign. Not everyone who voted leave was a racist but every racist voted leave and all that.

Total garbage about NI too, the GFA was always a major part of Brexit discussions. So much so that @TheHateIsNotGood is still getting bile deleted all these years later.

Pumperthepumper

Not everyone who voted leave was a racist but every racist voted leave and all that.

and yet some remainers voted remain for cheap labour not for love of different cultures.

Total garbage about NI too, the GFA was always a major part of Brexit discussions.

You remember it one way I remember it another. But then maybe it was over shadowed by the name calling.

@FrippEnos

Pumperthepumper

Not everyone who voted leave was a racist but every racist voted leave and all that.

and yet some remainers voted remain for cheap labour not for love of different cultures.

Total garbage about NI too, the GFA was always a major part of Brexit discussions.

You remember it one way I remember it another. But then maybe it was over shadowed by the name calling.

Were there many leave voters concerned with NI do you think?

I doubt it, but them the remain campaign could have made so much more of it, and most of the remainers that I know cared more about their cheap holidays than NI.