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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

TW. Could Grandad harm or abuse my children?

331 replies

Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 03:38

My FIL, this summer, on four separate occasions has tried to take my sons for a bath (in the middle of the afternoon) without me or my husband around.

We tend to stay a few nights each time we visit, as we live a considerable distance from them and go to visit for a night or two.

The first time, he managed to get the children (age 7&5) into the bath without us knowing (husband napping downstairs and me unpacking bags). What got me concerned was that he said the children had asked for a bath in the middle of the afternoon whereas later on my mother in law mentioned that it had all been Grandad's idea. So either there was a misunderstanding or Grandad was not telling the truth.

At this point, I had concerns:

  1. He has never been a hands on grandad in terms of childcare or hygiene. So why this sudden desire, now the boys are 7 & 5?
  1. There is no way my sons would have asked for a bath at 3pm in the afternoon. This idea of an 'activity' has to have come from him. Why not something more normal like walking to the park or a kick about with a ball in the garden?
  1. The discrepancies between what my MIL and FIL said had happened.

Bit worrying really but I didn't bother too much at this point.

Anyway, as we had been kept apart all last Christmas until the April due to Covid, we tried to make up for it and made another three trips up to see them between May and August. Each time, Grandad has tried to bath the kids in the afternoon. Myself and husband have shut it down every time with a clear "No thank you Grandad".

In fact, on one of the evenings when we were bathing them ourselves (at the normal time!!) our oldest son stated he wanted privacy so we told Grandad that and didn't allow him in, respecting our sons wishes. FWIW neither of our sons have disclosed anything about Grandad.

I don't know why but he still kept trying to do this ridiculous bathing in the afternoon thing despite us very clearly and firmly (no aggression) shutting it down EVERY time. In my eyes it just isn't appropriate, particularly as he has not been "hands on" in any respect of their lives so far.

It made me very upset to be honest and my husband and I have had to have few very upsetting conversations about his father's intentions.

It also made me aware of how Grandad stays up very late at night, much later than anyone else and on his way to bed he will walk in to the children's room and (I think) watch them. I was aware he did this and before thought he was just being sweet and enjoyed seeing the sleeping children. But now, I am horrified and it has led to me staying awake all night with the bedroom door open, waiting for him to go to bed and being vigilant about him entering the kids room. The fear and lack of sleep felt upsetting. Not going to be able to sleep there again unless I sleep in with the kids.

In addition, recently he has jumped at the chance to accompany either child to do a wee in the bushes (if we have been out and about in the woods without a toilet nearby). Once again, I shut this down every time and felt my son was relieved that I did so.

Finally, I have noticed he will sit on the sofa with the children, all three of them covered up with a blanket. I never gave it ANY thought before all this new, odd behaviour. But now, I am horrified by it and have told my husband we cannot allow it.

In mind I just cannot believe that my FIL could harm his grandsons. On the other hand, these recent behaviours have REALLY upset me and made me concerned. The whole thing has sickened me to be honesg. My instinct is to protect my children at all costs.

Back in August I rang the NSPCC for advice and they validated my concerns and told me (amongst other things-they were wonderfully supportive) to continue being vigilant, to reduce or stop contact if needed and to report to police if any clear abuse happened.

My husband and I have not seen his family since then. Like I said, it has meant some horribly difficult conversations for us and a good few tears.

As we have the distance between us, we have used that as a reason not to meet up through the last school term. Now it is Christmas, we will be stopping with other relatives close by and only doing short ish day trips to see the in laws. I honestly could not cope with an overnight trip at the moment. We hope that shorter trips without the need for any bathtimes at all will put a stop to this behaviour.

I haven't always got along that well with my in laws but the issues we have had in the past have been so trivial and have never stopped us seeing them.

Now that my FIL behaviour has led us to feel it is untoward and potentially concerning, I feel I have been led into a very disturbing place where I have to examine his intentions and consider whether or not he could abuse my children. It feels very dark anf sinister.

We have wondered if the odd behaviour could be an early onset dementia (not something we have brought up with the remainder of the family) or if he really is just clueless as to what is and isn't appropriate behaviour?

I'm not really asking AIBU. I don't feel, when it comes to my children's safety, that IABU at all. I also am not prematurely cutting off the in laws and children's relationship based on a hunch and scant evidence of child abuse.

I am however putting in stronger boundaries re.visits to their home and my husband and I have vowed to each other that we will not leave the children alone with Grandad at all. If anything untoward happens we will be leaving immediately. I am lucky my husband (although sad) is supporting me 100% in this.

I have the strongest feeling that I have to protect my children here and that you cannot rewind in real life so I have to prevent the worst happening. I am dreading the visits but am so, so grateful to my husband for arranging day visits only. Thr overnights and worry would destroy me.

I hope beyond hope that I am wrong and that Grandad poses no threat at all. However, I'm not sure how/if I am ever going to find out the "truth" and will likely spend the rest of their childhood and teen years being cautious etc.

Any advice or perspectives welcome. Please be kind.

OP posts:
JamMakingWannaBe · 20/12/2021 03:45

Trust your instincts.

I'm so glad your DH is on the same page but I would not be spending a night in their house ever again.

Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 03:48

Thank you. I will trust my instincts. I couldn't live with myself if I put them to the back of my mind and something happened.

It's not unusual for me to be awake in the night worrying about this issue.

OP posts:
Coyoacan · 20/12/2021 03:49

No advice but I think you are right to be wary. And maybe this is the sign of the outset of some disease

MsInsomniac · 20/12/2021 03:53

I work with sex offenders. What you describe could most definitely be grooming. I would stop all contact tbh though that will obviously be really difficult and cause many arguments. Are there other boys of same age in family?

Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 03:58

@MsInsomniac no boys the same age. An older male cousin who has had little contact due to living abroad.

You are right. I told my husband that if this behaviour was any other man we would have run a million miles by now.

Because it is his father, it ruins so many lives if we were to cut all contact. Sibling relationships would break down. His relationship with his mother.

We have wondered whether to discuss with husbands siblings but we believe they would be incredulous and think we ere mad and even vindictive.

OP posts:
MsInsomniac · 20/12/2021 04:02

I understand cutting contact would cause massive family rifts. But I have 2 boys and the thought of them even being groomed, if I knew I could have stopped it, if I suspected it… well you don’t really have any other option do you? I guess you could engineer a row between yourself and the ILs to allow DH to still see them alone without you and kids? Either way you’ll be blamed for it all within the family I’m sure. So sorry - shit situation

FictionalCharacter · 20/12/2021 04:06

Good grief.

  1. Bathing them for no reason in the daytime without you knowing
  2. Lying - saying it was their idea
  3. Trying to do it again
  4. DS said he wanted privacy in the bath (this is a really important one)
  5. Creeping into their bedroom at night
  6. Watching them pee
  7. Sitting with them under a blanket (dear god).

You’ve suggested 2 possibilities. Dementia or “he doesn’t know it’s inappropriate”. You’ve missed the blindingly obvious: HE KNOWS EXACTLY WHAT HE IS DOING AND YOU HAVE TO KEEP THEM AWAY FROM HIM.

Be kind? Sorry but you need honesty here. Your whole post sounds terrifyingly naive.

Have you seen the thread about the neighbour obsessed with the OP’s son? What you describe is far worse. Stop pussyfooting around and keep them away from him. Just saying you won’t leave them alone with him is not enough. He’ll find a way to get to them.

JustLikeaJingleBell · 20/12/2021 04:08

There was a case a couple of years ago where a man who it turned out had onset of dementia and attacked a school girl and dragged her off her bike and into some bushes. Luckily other people were around so managed to drag her out so nothing further happened.

So yes it could be dementia or maybe he has done this with one of your DH siblings. It is something you might need DH to discuss with them however difficult it may be.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 20/12/2021 04:09

Sadly, I have met sex offenders and this is very worrying. I wouldn’t be thinking he has Dementia. You say there are no boys in family - are there girls? Does he have laptops/computers in the home? Access to other children through work/community/religious groups???

FictionalCharacter · 20/12/2021 04:11

it ruins so many lives if we were to cut all contact
That is a price worth paying if you consider how your sons’ lives could be ruined in the worst way possible.
In any case it wouldn’t ruin those people’s lives. Plenty of families have estranged relatives and survive.

eurochick · 20/12/2021 04:17

There are enough red flags here to make bunting!

Joystir59 · 20/12/2021 04:21

I would not let my children have any contact with him- he is a paedophile.

DropYourSword · 20/12/2021 04:21

I think you’re doing exactly the right thing.

Honestly, it really all could be entirely innocent.
But it also could be sinister.

You don’t take that chance with your kids. Trust your instincts!

pansypotter123 · 20/12/2021 04:21

I hope beyond hope that I am wrong and that Grandad poses no threat at all. However, I'm not sure how/if I am ever going to find out the "truth" and will likely spend the rest of their childhood and teen years being cautious etc.

With all due respect you cannot take that chance: your sons are already displaying discomfort (by asking for privacy) and what if more grandchildren came along? Is FIL involved with youngsters in any other capacity - church, scouts etc? Are there any neighbouring youngsters? And does he use computers? Has he photographed your boys? What does he do with the pictures?

Do you really want to spend the rest of their childhood and teen years being cautious etc? Really?

Barely a week goes by these days without a news story about children being abused, and usually by someone close to them. Don't let your boys become one of those statistics.

Myhouseownsme · 20/12/2021 04:22

Given that your MIL is aware of discrepancies, have you spoken with her about your concerns, and specifically about behaviour which is not only unusual, but heavily linked with men who have unhealthy sexual interests in children?

If he has access to any other children it is worth making your MIL aware of your discomfort around his behaviour.

Joystir59 · 20/12/2021 04:23

Child sexual abuse affects a person their whole life- it's incredibly damaging. Just protect them from him. Sod upsetting familial relationships. Keep your boys away from.him- he is actively seeking intimate contact with them. Repeatedly and right under your nose.

Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 04:26

Thank you for your responses.

@FictionalCharacter I understand your response. However I am not being terrifyingly naive. I understand safeguarding and work with children. I rang the NSPCC. I am not letting my children out of my sight in his company. I haven't been near him in months!!

OP posts:
Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 04:28

@Ritasueandbobtoo9

No connections to other children apart from two other grandchildren who are not in the country. Like a dinosaur when it comes to tech.

OP posts:
tiredinoratia · 20/12/2021 04:30

Can I just clarify what your husband's perspective on this is when you have talked about it with him

fwiw I definitely there is enough to be worried about in the way you have presented the information to warrant your apprehension and I totally hear you, I'm curious as to what sense does their dad make of it?

Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 04:31

@pansypotter123

You are right. I know all these things hence why I have kept away from him, spoken with my husband and changed our behaviour accordingly.

OP posts:
FictionalCharacter · 20/12/2021 04:33

Have you read the replies on the other thread from people who were abused by grandfathers, uncles etc when their parents and other people were actually in the room?
I understand you have decided not to let them be alone with him. I’m just saying it’s not enough and the only safe level of contact is none. Normal safeguarding is for when there is a normal level of risk i.e. there could be someone around who is up to no good so you take reasonable precautions with everyone. In your case you have very clear evidence, so you need to act more drastically.

Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 04:33

@myhouseownsme

My MIL would be entirely incapable of having these conversations with us. She would ignore, shut it down and never speak of it again.

This is how they operate.

OP posts:
Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 04:34

For the poster who asked if he takes pictures, he doesn't. He barely uses his phone.

OP posts:
Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 04:36

@tiredinoratia

Yes, husband entirely supports me. When growing up his father never harmed him yet did make him feel uncomfortable about his.own body. Hugging him oddly and wobbling his (small) belly almost as if to make him feel self conscious about it. Sex was never discussed on their household.

OP posts:
Neveratruerword · 20/12/2021 04:40

@fictionalcharacter

Yes I have read those accounts and more.
I totally understand what you are saying.

I truly believe that within a couple of hours visit to their house, including an hour at the park, my husband and I can be vigilant enough to protect my children.

I will make myself speak out if anything even mildly inappropriate has a chance of happening and we will be leaving that house the very same minute.

OP posts: