To think DH is selfish denying the DC Christmas?

[ohganggang]

Been together 7 years, married for 5. We have a 4 year old DD, a 2 year old DS and I'm pregnant with out 3rd. DH was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, they do not celebrate Christmas as they believe it is satanic. The religion has a shunning policy and DH got shunned by his family and friends when it came out he was in a relationship with a non-JW (me) at the start of our relationship as that is forbidden. He is essentially dead to his mum, dad and siblings.

DH had stopped believing in the religion long before I came on the scene and was just keeping up pretenses for his family until he got found out. He is now as atheist as they come. He has a lot of religious trauma from his childhood, from growing up believing the world was about to end, watching the kids at his school celebrating Christmas and 'knowing' they were going to be killed in Armageddon for it (they teach that God will kill literally everybody who isn't a JW, no exceptions), being taught that the world is run by Satan etc etc. He lived his childhood in perpetual fear. I have advised him to seek counselling and he won't.

He now rejects anything to do with religion, and can't be doing with Christmas. He actually gets depressed every year around the Christmas season and says it's because it brings up the trauma of his childhood. Because of this, we've never bothered with Christmas together. For the first couple of years of the relationship before living together, marriage and DC I'd just go to my family on Christmas Day as usual. Christmas 2017 after DD was born, we stayed home and did nothing and it was the first year I didn't do anything for Christmas. Me and DH had a conversation that year and he said he doesn't want to do Christmas with our kids as it will trigger his trauma and remind him of the childhood joy he missed out on. He also wants the kids to be completely atheist and have nothing to do with religion. I accepted that.

But DD is now 4, and in pre-school, and the pre-school is making a huge deal out of Christmas coming up soon. I find this problematic because obviously it causes issues for families like mine but we're in a small town with not much cultural diversity so I think they've assumed all of the kids will be celebrating at home. They absolutely haven't considered some families might not be celebrating Christmas and I've debated raising a complaint, but that's another thread. Naturally, the talk of a Christmas nativity, the kids being hyped up about an upcoming Christmas 'party' and general encouragement for the kids to talk about Christmas among themselves, has resulted in DD getting excited for Christmas.

I have told DH today that I don't think it's fair on the kids and that I don't think it's right to project his trauma on to the kids. To me it seems like a case of "I didn't get to have Christmas so why should my kids?". I do understand his trauma though. I tried to compromise saying we don't have to decorate the house but I am doing presents for the kids and me and the kids will go to my parents on the day to celebrate and he can stay at home. He says no, that he isn't comfortable with his kids having "that religious bullshit in their lives". I'm really annoyed with him.

I'm Christian and actually dislike the whole presents and santa thing. If I didn't have children, I wouldn't bother much (I wouldn't need to with santa obviously). Am not fussed about a tree etc. I do believe in the birth of Christ and death resurrection. That's what I try to focus on. But there's no way we wouldn't do the tree / presents / lights etc. In fact, if you saw my house, you'd think I was a huge fan of it all. Children are only children once.
Please don't complain to the school either.

His attitude to Easter is hilarious. That's by far the bigger Christian festival. That's nothing to do with pagan eggs and bunnies though!

This has nothing to do with Christianity, everything to do with his personal trauma.

I'm amazed someone so traumatized has been able to form an adult relationship really.

Is this the same ex JW husband who spends his days off steam cleaning the carpets?

If so, he is quite dysfunctional and hard to live with a lot of the time.

So he can't be bothered to reach out for help and support to address his traumatic childhood, and just expects to be controlling and 'deal with it' in a way that just suits him and is detrimental to your DC. Fuck that.

I've just read that you celebrate Easter. This is the most important time of year in Chritianity. So his view is somewhat off. If anything, JW would be against that too? Bunnies and eggs are not part of the Easter story either.
It all sounds a bit messy, he doesn't sound confident in his beliefs at all. His atheism has become a mission in itself, with an unhealthy fear of God and his mum.

He would definitely benefit from some therapy but if he won’t have any then he doesn’t get to dictate how the rest of the family wants to live. Tell him to go out for the day if he’s so anti a few presents and a nice lunch, which is basically all Christmas has to be if you want

Oh and his birthday! So long as he gets a big cake eh? Never mind anyone else's enjoyment of anything.

That's what I read here. Someone self-centred, to the extent that he sees his trauma as the only 'real' thing in his life and can't see past that primary relationship, with his trauma, to see the people around him as particularly important. What did you say about his mother having narcissistic tendencies?

It's like an alcoholic, whose primary relationship is with alcohol. You and the DC will never be as important, as central to him and his life, as his traumatic upbringing.

@PlasticPlantsDontDie

As an atheist who still gets a bit of anxiety going into a church, is it possible that he’s unable to let go of the fear that if his children celebrate Christmas they will be damned?

It may be hard for him to shake off the brainwashing of his childhood.

I still think this ^ is likely to be nearer the mark.

YANBU to think he is selfish for not wanting Christmas in his children's lives. It really sounds like he just can't be arsed with it. Christmas is quite a lot of work for adults. I don't see why his wish to not do Christmas trumps yours to do it.

Christmas is celebrated and learnt about in schools whether the dc are celebrating it at home or not. The exception being if a child is a JW and is withdrawn. Jewish and Hindu dc aren't withdrawn from assembly or RE lessons because their parents don't think it's harmful to learn about other religions.

I've worked in a Primary school where every single child was Muslim. The school had all of the INSET days over Eid so it could close. In the run up to Eid we did lots of lovely things but we still did Christmas too. British dc need to learn the story of Christmas and they need to learn how to make those snowflakes that you cut out of paper and stick on the windows.

My husband isn't British and didn't have Christmas growing up but he still untangles the lights every year and does the wrapping. He shares the happiness and of course now we have our own traditions that we have created with our own little family.

I'm agnostic, but people saying Father Christmas and Santa Claus aren't religious icons are misguided.

Santa Claus translates very literally (in Italian, which he was) to Saint Claus (derived from Nicolas) who was a Catholic Priest. A real person, known for his good deeds in his community. Not pagan, not midwinterry, 100% religious.

No ones bothered these days of course, but you can bet it's an argument 'D'H would put forward 🙄

OP please step up for your kids, it isn’t ok that his reason is because it will remind him of the joy he didn’t have - why would any parent want their child to be deprived of joy. Step up now whilst they’re young. They don’t deserve to miss our year on year because he can’t see past his own selfish needs. I’d be seriously considering to LTB.

He's passing the abuse onto the kids. He is controlling, just like his mum. Pease don't be complicit. He seeks help or leaves the family home.

This atheist has a Christmas tree in every room! He sounds like he is still in the cult mentality, with this black-or-white, with-me or against-me thinking. He really does need to get help, for the sake of the kids. I’d be very clear on that. He can’t help that he had a shit childhood and a horrible family but he can change the dynamic with his own and allow his children the freedom of thought and celebration he never had. That, not militant atheism, is truly breaking free.

He's being just like his mother, imposing his views of religion on his children.

He sounds awful tbh, aren't you worried that he will have a long term negative impact on your children?

I think it sounds worrying that you don't dare put a tree up.

I think he’s just controlling, and trying to justify it.

Your children are going to be as traumatised as he is. If he can't put his own issues aside for his children and wife then he's being incredibly selfish. He needs to sort himself out. It might be a different kind of abuse from hitting them but it's still abuse (often people who were beaten as children beat their own children). It's not acceptable. Pljs it's your Christmas too. You should be able to enjoy it.

We are Jewish and my husband has never celebrated Christmas but my children have a Christmas and enjoy Santa and presents, the food etc - we only do that so they're not missing out when everyone talks about it at school but do not celebrate it in the religious way

I actually think people are being really closed-minded and harsh here. His behaviour isn't ok but tbh it sounds as though he isn't mentally well, maybe he has PTSD or something. I feel sad for his younger self. He needs help and you shouldn't pander to this but I don't think he's the awful bastard everyone is making him out to be and I do think if it was you saying you were traumatised by Xmas, they would be more understanding. 🤷‍♀️

I think we all understand it's trauma. But he is unwilling to recognise or address that. Which makes him incapable of conducting a healthy relationship.

You need to look to the future here, otherwise your children may not spend Christmas with you out of choice when they’re older.

Look at DH’s trauma now. This is what you are going to see in your own children in the future. How will they feel about having parents who refused to let them join in with their friends? Who made them feel like outsiders at school? Who refused to create happy, warm childhood memories for them? Who made Christmas all about trauma and resentment?

Whilst I really sympathise with how difficult childhood trauma of this kind is to overcome, the last thing you ever do is willingly pass it on to your children. And it won’t just be DH passing it on - it will be you, too.

Imagine their point of view: ‘how come my mum got to grow up with and celebrate Christmas, but never allowed us to?’. Be careful they don’t end up feeling rejected by you in favour of their difficult father.

His insistence on his children being "complete atheists" - no choice for them, just as there wasn't for him, may well have them taking up religion when they reach their rebellious years.

Yes he is being selfish.

@HailAdrian

I actually think people are being really closed-minded and harsh here. His behaviour isn't ok but tbh it sounds as though he isn't mentally well, maybe he has PTSD or something. I feel sad for his younger self. He needs help and you shouldn't pander to this but I don't think he's the awful bastard everyone is making him out to be and I do think if it was you saying you were traumatised by Xmas, they would be more understanding. 🤷‍♀️

We all understand it’s trauma. Alcoholism is a disease and that’s not ok either to expose the dc to. He’s refusing counselling, preferring to inflict his trauma on his children. That’s bad parenting- maybe it’s the best he’s capable of and he can’t fix it, in which case the op has to protect her children from him, like many parents have had to do with their partners who have complex issues.

Ex-JW here. Also suffered trauma from growing up in this cult.
I quite enjoy Christmas, went so OTT my first few years. Calmed down a bit now. I think he might have PTSD, possibly can't shake thr feeling its wrong to celebrate but doesn't want to admit thats why. Or that any sort of religion = same upbringing as him.
It isn't fair for you or children to walk on egg shells around him. There is no getting around Christmas is a christain festival, but realistically it has evolved into a commercial festival. Plenty of non-religious, or even people of other religions celebrate because they want to gift gifts, have a big roast, generally have fun. They will be exposed to it, and they'll feel different for not being able to join in. Surely he remembers how it felt?

Point that out to him and tell him you will be doing a secular Christmas. I fully understand the trauma from growing up in the cult, I do, but his behaviour isn't acceptable and he needs to realising he is doing what his mother did but in a different form.

Have you spoken to him about the impact of his behaviour on HIS children.
He needs therapy and I’d insist on it.