To think DH is selfish denying the DC Christmas?

[ohganggang]

Been together 7 years, married for 5. We have a 4 year old DD, a 2 year old DS and I'm pregnant with out 3rd. DH was raised as a Jehovah's Witness, they do not celebrate Christmas as they believe it is satanic. The religion has a shunning policy and DH got shunned by his family and friends when it came out he was in a relationship with a non-JW (me) at the start of our relationship as that is forbidden. He is essentially dead to his mum, dad and siblings.

DH had stopped believing in the religion long before I came on the scene and was just keeping up pretenses for his family until he got found out. He is now as atheist as they come. He has a lot of religious trauma from his childhood, from growing up believing the world was about to end, watching the kids at his school celebrating Christmas and 'knowing' they were going to be killed in Armageddon for it (they teach that God will kill literally everybody who isn't a JW, no exceptions), being taught that the world is run by Satan etc etc. He lived his childhood in perpetual fear. I have advised him to seek counselling and he won't.

He now rejects anything to do with religion, and can't be doing with Christmas. He actually gets depressed every year around the Christmas season and says it's because it brings up the trauma of his childhood. Because of this, we've never bothered with Christmas together. For the first couple of years of the relationship before living together, marriage and DC I'd just go to my family on Christmas Day as usual. Christmas 2017 after DD was born, we stayed home and did nothing and it was the first year I didn't do anything for Christmas. Me and DH had a conversation that year and he said he doesn't want to do Christmas with our kids as it will trigger his trauma and remind him of the childhood joy he missed out on. He also wants the kids to be completely atheist and have nothing to do with religion. I accepted that.

But DD is now 4, and in pre-school, and the pre-school is making a huge deal out of Christmas coming up soon. I find this problematic because obviously it causes issues for families like mine but we're in a small town with not much cultural diversity so I think they've assumed all of the kids will be celebrating at home. They absolutely haven't considered some families might not be celebrating Christmas and I've debated raising a complaint, but that's another thread. Naturally, the talk of a Christmas nativity, the kids being hyped up about an upcoming Christmas 'party' and general encouragement for the kids to talk about Christmas among themselves, has resulted in DD getting excited for Christmas.

I have told DH today that I don't think it's fair on the kids and that I don't think it's right to project his trauma on to the kids. To me it seems like a case of "I didn't get to have Christmas so why should my kids?". I do understand his trauma though. I tried to compromise saying we don't have to decorate the house but I am doing presents for the kids and me and the kids will go to my parents on the day to celebrate and he can stay at home. He says no, that he isn't comfortable with his kids having "that religious bullshit in their lives". I'm really annoyed with him.

He had a phase of checking the official JW website each morning, finding the latest thing that had been posted and showing it to me saying "Look at the crap they are coming out with now."

I nipped it in the bud, said I didn't care and didn't want to know.

I know this is the typical, cliche thing to say but in every other sense he is an absolutely wonderful husband and dad. I hate that he is damaged like this and probably was in denial and thought marriage and kids would fix him.

@theworldsgonefeckingmad

LTB

All he is doing is trying to give his children the same traumatic childhood he had, they will hate Christmas because of the bad memories of back to school everyone talking about it and they will be the only ones who haven't had a Christmas

This, my DH is the same, he'll recall some traumas, one of which is not getting any presents and then want to do the same for our kids. I don't understand it, surely as a parent your job is to try to do better? It must be thing.

I'm not religious but school will teach the Nativity as we are default Christian in most schools. To me it's a story, I've explained that to DS.

Unfortunately if you don't act now, he may well cause a great deal of emotional harm to the children. They won't be unaffected by him and I think you need to be honest with him that he either gets help or you can't stay with him because of the damage he could do.

@ohganggang

I think inside he is still that little boy who watched his classmates talking about Christmas with complete and utter terror thinking they were going to be murdered by God for it any day.

He won't get it dealt with.

Not everything can be "dealt with". it is now part of who he is. Also - you mentioned he is adamant his children will be atheists - he doesn't get to decide that.

I've been thinking myself he's just gone from one cult mindset to another.

The thing is the cult mindset is the only one he has. this is how he was reared and this is how he has been taught to think - all or nothing. he needs to get help and you need to make sure it stops now and doesn't carry onto your children.

Sounds like he is using his childhood trauma to keep you in check so you do what he wants. This is not good for your children. I'm an atheist but will happily celebrate any festive season for any religion because it makes other people happy. Why won't he do this? I'd take the kids and go to your parents for Christmas. It's apparently just another day for him so shouldn't be an issue but I bet he makes it one.

He is becoming exhausting now, to be honest. I've broken my back trying to be patient with him and carry his traumas for him.

You're not even being paid for this psychiatric nursing/therapy @ohganggang . This is not ok. You could start saying 'I can't help you, you need to see your GP/a therapist' whenever he brings anything depressing up or dominates the house or trips with moods etc.

compare their traumas.

It sounds like some online forums that maybe encourage people to compete to be the most fuucked up in various ways. Not good.

If it's a well-rounded forum there should be a thread for ex-JWs about what they're doing for Xmas this year etc, he could join with that.

It's like he enjoys being miserable- maybe because it makes him the centre of attention? I don't want to be mean, but that's what it sounds like it could partly be.

Also, all of this "christmas isn't really religious" bollocks that's getting spouted in this thread is awful, it's right there is the name christmas as in christianity.

@nosyupnorth I tend to write it as Xmas, and I'm just not going to let anything get between me and a good time.

it's offensive to act as if people with other faiths are being unreasonable not to go against their beliefs just because some people feel like the christian dominance of this country is more important respecting other religions.

I don't think anyone's said people from other religions must do xmas or they're awful. Cults/sects that don't celebrrate much of anything are a bit sad though, or children from a similar background not doing stuff that their friiends do. Are you a JW?

Atheism isn't a belief arguably, it's the abscence of a belief. So atheists can still do all sorts of cultural things if it brings them and/or their loved ones/LOs pleasure.

But I know the spiel about what a painful childhood he had would start and it would trigger a depressive episode.

Urgh, bin bin bin. I understand depression of course, but his is performative, he probably gets something out of it, including being the centre of your attention (until now I hope.)

She used to tell him he was upsetting Jehovah by making friends and talking to the other kids at school so he stopped.

You can't even know what's true out of what you're being told. I mean, it's possible she said that in theory of course. And/or he might say stuff like that to manipulate you. Either way, not your problem, he needs professional help and to stop making other people's lives more miserable.

He sounds a lot like his mother with his black and white thinking the children come first
Don't forget you have a voice his trauma doesn't have to dictate the course of your lives

I'm speachless at how awful your dh is.
How can you bear to be with someone who is jealous of his own little children.. Who effectively wants to deny them fun, pleasure etc just could he didn't have that.
Over on the thread about worse Christmas ever... There are many posters (mostly mums) with just heart breaking stories of appalling Christmases as children involving hideous abuse... They ALL are going overboard to ensure their children have magical Christmases... That is what good parents do/want.. They want better for their children.
What does dh do about birthdays? He would not have had celebrations as a child... What are you going to do when he ramps up. His jealousy and doesn't want your dc having birthday parties etc.
Imagine your dc coming home saying they are so excited cus they arw going to be mary/joseph/a shepherd in nativity play and you have to say "you can't darling because daddy didn't get to do that when he was your age, and he's jealous of you doing it, so let's not upset daddy"
Why... Oh why... Do women feel everything has to revolve around making men happy.

Just because he had a shitty time growing up doesn't mean his kids should. Why is he wanting them to experience the same thing that he did? Surely he would want them to have happier memories than he did. Christmas can be as religious or non religious as you want it to be. In our family there's no religious element to Christmas but we do presents and have a big dinner every year

He's not thinking rationally because of his trauma. He needs therapy for this, AND he needs to understand that for you it is a cultural holiday about family and love. For you, this is now non-negotiable, you have realised that you are not currently raising them the way you want to, you want them to have the joy and love of Christmas. He also doesn't get a say in whether they grow up to be atheists or not because he's not allowed to tell them what to believe, just as his mother doesn't get a say.

My Dad never liked religion. I used to ask him all the time about it and he would always tell me to make my own mind up, and that it doesn't matter if I do or don't believe in God. We celebrate Christmas every year together and his roasties are amazing.

Their memories of their Dad need to be of love and acceptance.

Then take the religion out of the holiday.

We have lights to help us during the darkest time of the year. Have a true to celebrate hope for new beginnings and to look towards the spring.

Santa really isn't religious.

Just don't do Jesus stuff, like most people.

Your husband has weaponised his trauma against his own children and if he won't get help, then LTB because this will only get worse.

But also:

They absolutely haven't considered some families might not be celebrating Christmas and I've debated raising a complaint, but that's another thread.

This is where you are BU. Do not weaponise the pain your husband has caused your family against your DC's nursery. Your husband has made a choice, other people outside your family don't have to suffer because of that. You don't either and I would say you should start planning your exit strategy because you do not want your kids to be subjected to the same he was. Generational trauma is always the same at its root, it just takes different forms.

Not everything can be "dealt with". it is now part of who he is.

@Ariann Therapy and perhaps medicine can help deal with it- it's definitely worth giving a good try. I've been in therapy for years on and off for various issues, because I like to try and improve myself. I like to think it might've worked a bit.

As a PP said @ohganggang , EMDR is one of the best therapies for trauma, I highly recommed it.

It’s tragic the trauma cults have on children and adults that said he has no right to make you and your children experience his traumas. He cannot expect you to live a life that isn’t comfortable for you because of his past. If he’s refusing to seek treatment then you need to point out the hypocrisy in his statements. He is forcing his children to relive and grow up with his trauma and in turn passing it down to them. That is not healthy and you have to wonder, where does it stop?

You need to protect your children from the cult. He may have officially left but he’s still living it everyday and your kids don’t need to be part of that.

let's not upset daddy" Why... Oh why... Do women feel everything has to revolve around making men happy.

@Theredjellybean My childhood was like that with a dad with largely undiagnosed 'mental health problems'/ trauma etc. No fun for the wives and so damaging for children.

He is a selfish idiot. I couldnt be with someone that self centred. Just take the kids to your parents and leave him home alone to wallow in self pity.
He wont get help for his trauma and wants to inflict it on his kids.

@me4real
I hope you have managed to recover, and find joy now in things like Christmas with your dc... (presuming you have them)

I couldn't put up with living with a joy sponge. You are being just as cruel to your children if you deny them their stockings. You grew up with the magic of Christmas so you should know he is projecting his miserable childhood onto his own kids and you are letting him. Do you want your children to be the only ones with no stockings? He needs to get help.

@Theredjellybean I do ok, thanks for asking. I find joy in most things.

I'm an ex JW, me and my brother were born in the religion however I think pretty much all the witnesses my age I grew up with left, less so my brothers age group, but he had also left.To an extent I get your DH however if you leave you leave. I'm not 100% sure were I stand on is God real, if he is he can't be accurately portrayed by JW's, he's got some character issues! However wild horses couldn't drag me or my brother back and we are very clear on this point, the religion is manipulative and unhealthy and maybe not the dictionary definition of a cult but its not far off. I think your DH needs to think long and hard he does birthdays, but not Christmas? He needs to give his head a wobble. I love Christmas and birthdays so much and go over the top for my kids and I don't care, I love the lights, the presents, the family, the feeling of happiness. I never felt I missed out as a kid but I definitely would of chosen Christmas if I had known what was involved.
My mum also said something similar when my baby was little like your MIL however luckily for her she said to my brother and not me and he soon put her right, he told me a year later when he knew I would be able to laugh about it.
I left 19 years ago never checked the website, no that's not true my mum started talked to me once we got married and no longer living in sin (was never disfellowed) and she asked were the nearest Kingdom Hall was to us do I checked then.
Your husband has some deep seated issues. I dont want to worry you but he sounds a perfect candidate to return to the 'truth'.

Our Christmas has sweet FA to do with religion. Even down to no nativity. Nada.

Enjoy your Christmas and don’t let your joy sucking husband kill the fun for you and the kids.

Christmas isn't religious. It's only celebrated now as a religious holiday because Christians wanted to convert the awful pagans 🙄.

I'm an atheist. We celebrate Christmas. It's a holiday where we spend time with family, give presents, and eat good food. You can make any holiday whatever you want in your own house. Not wanting his kids to have joy because he missed out on it as a child is super fucked up. SUPER FUCKED UP. I'd tell him he NEEDS counseling. Them I'd tell hi that if he doesn't want to celebrate that's fine, but you and the kids will go to your family's and celebrate with them.... Including gifts. Fuck's sake.

I think inside he is still that little boy who watched his classmates talking about Christmas with complete and utter terror thinking they were going to be murdered by God for it any day.

Yes, he probably is. And he's doing nothing about it and is continuing to be stuck in a destructive and selfish mindset while his children have to miss out on a fun holiday, because Dad will get triggered, even though he seemingly goes out of his way to trigger himself on the daily.

remind him of the childhood joy he missed out on
Does he hear himself when he says this? He is literally making his own children miss out on childhood joy for his sake. Supremely self-centred.

Take your DC's away, and have a great Christmas. Your DH can choose misery and forums.