How do people keep voting in the tories?

[chaosmaker]

I'd love it if tory voters could say why they vote the way they do given that there's ample evidence for how utterly incompetent they are (11 years). Especially in the last election. With that not-fit-for-purpose idiot in charge - edited by MNHQ
I also keep writing to my MP saying that if they are going to pretend we have democracy then they need to scrap FPTP.

AIBU that we should allow people with no sense to vote or
AINBU am I right in that people should have to factor history and rare sense into their decision making?

They didn't hand them out like confetti back in the day. The standards generally were a lot higher. These days students don't put anywhere near the hard graft in that they did.

I thought that until my son started his GCSEs and A levels. His GCSEs were way harder than mine and my husband's, particularly for French which was talking less about what time the train arrived and ordering a cheese baguette and more about social injustice and climate change. Also more application in addition to content knowledge.

He hasn't started his degree yet but the standard for personal statements on UCAS applications is in a different league to mine and my husband's (we both went to Durham). Seemingly there are a higher proportion of first and upper seconds but, anecdotally, recent graduates we know studied a lot harder than we did. Perhaps due to tuition fees.

Just standing up for the modern generation a little as I think it's a brutally competitive environment at times, relative to our own educational experience.

@TheCreamCaker

Jeremy Corbyn Dianne Abbott Keir Starmer

This. Especially the first two.

Keep on hearing this comment that the LP didn’t listen to the working classes it’s supposed to represent.

1. Tories in power last almost 12 years. Have they listened to the working classes which funnily enough voted for them in many an ex red wall constituency and are according to the media the new party of the W/C ? Do the working classes want a small state society, rampant privatisation, erosion of workers rights, reduction of benefits to help the poorest, austerity ? Because that’s what they’ve been getting albeit the covid blip of high spending which is very much an anomaly. Not seen much levelling up or Big Society round here. But still despite their lies, corruption and ineptitude they are better than the LP. Saying that the tories have lost a second true blue seat so MNetters don’t represent the rest of the electorate.
2. Apart from Thornberry’s misguided attempt at humour which labour MP has mocked the W/C’s ? It’s a trope oft repeated but never evidenced. I can however find many a comment made by Johnson and his colleagues

which are blatantly laughing at the plebs. I think most voters are disgusted by the current administration whatever the the Tory fanboys on here say. Starmer has collected a decent shadow cabinet around him, moving the party to the centre ground, seem to be cooperating informally with the LDs in by elections as demonstrated by north Shropshire result and Starmer’s becoming more visible to the public and growing a backbone. Popularity ratings are much improved too. And FWIW despite how Blair ended up, the last labour government managed to pass some pretty progressive long lasting legislation which the tories haven’t managed to dismantle yet. They weren’t perfect (and yes I remember Iraq etc) but equally they didn’t create a communist dictatorship either and nationalise everything in sight. Obviously I await the usuals coming to tell me that labour don’t know what a women is and that the the tories do ignoring the fact that W/C women have been hit the worst by Tory policies.

I’m entertained by this constant slagging-off match between two political parties who are both as bad as each other.

It’s not an election year you know.

(You could also try to show something positive about the one instead of just slagging the other off, but hey, we all know that won’t happen).

But this brings it back to voting Remain and Non-Conservative being good/right and vice versa. I wouldn't dream of saying that to my friends that voted the opposite way to me as they're entitled to hold a different view.

Of course there is a moral component in politics, and of course some of the choices are morally right and morally wrong. It's not like supporting a football team, or being a member of a religion. These are choices in which you interfere in other people's lives.

I can see you don't Jesse. If you did, you would see the standards have dropped considerably. Your lived experience of having children in higher education is just that. The experience of your two children. Compared to your individual experience. Teaching /marking the work of many of these students shows a more comprehensive picture of whats really going on. And it's not good.

@AuntyBumBum

But this brings it back to voting Remain and Non-Conservative being good/right and vice versa. I wouldn't dream of saying that to my friends that voted the opposite way to me as they're entitled to hold a different view.

Of course there is a moral component in politics, and of course some of the choices are morally right and morally wrong. It's not like supporting a football team, or being a member of a religion. These are choices in which you interfere in other people's lives.

I disagree. I don't interfere in your life with my choices, nor you in mine. I make the best of what life throws at me. I have had good and bad. Others see all their problems as "someone else's fault ". Usually, the government or those pesky evil tories. Take responsibility for your own life, for goodness sake!

Starmer has collected a decent shadow cabinet around him, moving the party to the centre ground, seem to be cooperating informally with the LDs in by elections as demonstrated by north Shropshire result and Starmer’s becoming more visible to the public and growing a backbone.

'Decent shadow cabinet' may be your opinion but it certainly isn't mine. Starmer growing a backbone would be dealing effectively with Angela Rayner instead of rolling over very single time and looking like a complete fool. Weak and utterly spineless would be a more appropriate description in my opinion.

I disagree. I don't interfere in your life with my choices, nor you in mine.

I'm very interested to hear which party you vote for who's policies affect your life only and no one else's!

I certainly vote to interfere in your life.

mellongoose

"Out of interest, when was the last time you bought sustainably caught British fish? Does it appear every week in your trolley?

No. Thought not. Until Britain eats its own catch, the industry will be in trouble.

Britain imports the fish it eats and exports the fish it catches. Absolutely crazy."

No as a vegetarian sustainably caught British fish or otherwise has most certainly not appeared in my trolley . It is hardly my responsibility to change the British Palate with its predilection for cod and haddock , a lot of which hails from the Icelandic, Norwegian and Barents Seas.

I don't answer for mellongoose, but we eat British fish several times most weeks! Bought from either Looe or Plymouth fish markets, usually on the day it's landed. Everything from red gurnard to mackerel, hake (a favourite) to plaice, sole, brill, bass and bream, plus fish pie mix. And mussels from St Austell bay. Only the prawns are frozen. But I also only buy meat from local butchers or graziers that work with known farms. And, no, before you ask... it really doesn't cost very much more than supermarket food, especially for the stewing cuts, but you do need to be in an area with a strong food and farming culture. The McDonalds in our local town closed 15 years ago because no one went.

Because Labour have completely alienated much of what used to be their core support base.

Did Labour voters ever eat more British fish than tories?

@MapleMay11 Angela Rayner is only one member of his cabinet. Likewise Johnson is the only scoundrel in his cabinet ...oh wait..
Angela Rayner is a marmite figure who winds people up for some reason. Apparently she's a vile brash woman, who dresses appallingly and is a poor mother as well as being thick. Not my words but the comments made by MNetters about her. All snobbery to a certain extent and ironic because in the next breath they were rushing to tell us that the LP hated the WC and could only vote tory .

[quote Berlinkreuzberg]@MapleMay11 Angela Rayner is only one member of his cabinet. Likewise Johnson is the only scoundrel in his cabinet ...oh wait..
Angela Rayner is a marmite figure who winds people up for some reason. Apparently she's a vile brash woman, who dresses appallingly and is a poor mother as well as being thick. Not my words but the comments made by MNetters about her. All snobbery to a certain extent and ironic because in the next breath they were rushing to tell us that the LP hated the WC and could only vote tory .[/quote]
I like Raynor, carer, teenage mum, dragged herself up, whats not to like? at least she has some idea of what it's like to be poor in this country, unlike say Cameron Sunak or Johnson.

Surely every Tory voter should be applauding a woman with a bad start in life has become an MP ?

Or do you think she has risen above her station?

I don't mind her but not keen on her politics vis a vis Corbyn. I was surprised by the nasty misogynistic comments she attracts. Especially from those who said labour had lost touch with the WC. I guess she's not the right type of know your betters doff your cap wc person.

The lack of respect she shows to Keir Starmer is an issue for me. It was made clear to her than no one saw her as a credible leader but she seems unable to accept this. She's certainly very unpopular and is at risk of alienating potential voters who may think of returning to Labour in the future.

@AuntyBumBum

There was also the expression of a desire for change. Plenty of Brexit votes were simply cast for change. When you are at the bottom and have nothing to lose then change is worth a chance.

I know you don't like the word "thick" @C8H10N4O2, but I would say anyone who used this reasoning was very clearly unwise. Anyone who voted for change, in the face of pretty much united expert advice, without actually understanding what would change or what the consequences might be, while also thinking that they personally could not be any worse off was ... unwise!

Because when your wages, conditions and job & home security are diminished by deregulating the job market and the housing market you vote for change. If you work in the sectors where many low wage migrants are being shipped in by employers to work on zero hours temp models, keeping wages suppressed you vote for change.
If you see nothing potentially better for your children then you vote for change.

This is what remain tapped into - the desire for change, any change because when you live in generationally depressed areas it feels like the only way is up.

Freedom of movement and Erasmus places and the great European ideal and even the tax contribution of migrants mean sod all when your primary concern is the week's fuel bills, feeding your family and a future for your children.

In terms of expert advice - there were plenty of experts who thought that economically we could do better outside of Europe. I believed in and campaigned for remain. Many of the failings of the last 40 yrs are squarely down to UK governments and global economic trends. However I'm not so foolish as to claim that there were no arguments in favour of leaving and that European government is some nirvana of organisation and efficiency.

Who are the working classes?

@ParsleySageRosemary

I’m entertained by this constant slagging-off match between two political parties who are both as bad as each other.

It’s not an election year you know.

(You could also try to show something positive about the one instead of just slagging the other off, but hey, we all know that won’t happen).

Damned if you damned if you don't.

Starmer/Labour supports some government proposals in the national interest - gets accused of being weak and not being an opposition.

Starmer/Labour opposes some government plans - accused of "playing politics"

I like Raynor, carer, teenage mum, dragged herself up, whats not to like? at least she has some idea of what it's like to be poor in this country, unlike say Cameron Sunak or Johnson.

Surely every Tory voter should be applauding a woman with a bad start in life has become an MP ?

Or do you think she has risen above her station?

There's a whiff of this isn't there? Even from my own arch-feminist mother I regret to say.

@C8H10N4O2 - excellent analysis but one that will drowned out as always by blind remainers shouting "bigot".

I've never voted Tory in my life, but I've also stopped voting Labour (didn't vote the last couple of elections). I'm sick to death of the hard left goading and insulting people for their voting decisions as if it's some sort of crime not to think and vote the way that they do. Most of these people are well off and have zero idea of what it's like to be poor or to struggle.

While I wouldn't vote Tory myself, I don't have a problem with anybody who does. It is their right to choose how they want to vote, as much as it is anybody else's. The hard left appear have turned into the Nazi party and are unelectable as far as I'm concerned.

MidnightMeltdown: insulting people for their voting decisions

Also MidnightMeltdown: The hard left appear have turned into the Nazi party

The hard left appear have turned into the Nazi party and are unelectable as far as I'm concerned.

You are ridiculous.