How do people keep voting in the tories?

[chaosmaker]

I'd love it if tory voters could say why they vote the way they do given that there's ample evidence for how utterly incompetent they are (11 years). Especially in the last election. With that not-fit-for-purpose idiot in charge - edited by MNHQ
I also keep writing to my MP saying that if they are going to pretend we have democracy then they need to scrap FPTP.

AIBU that we should allow people with no sense to vote or
AINBU am I right in that people should have to factor history and rare sense into their decision making?

@elodie77

No critical thinking at all, no ability to debate about various policy points just absolute unwavering, unquestioning support for...

I'm afraid that is exactly what a lot of Tory voters are like, even in the face of a catastrophically incompetent and corrupt government people still support them 'because their values align with mine' like many people say here. And not one poster on this thread for example has been willing or able to debate Conservative policies.

No acknowledgement of how your fellows behaved or saying yeah you have a point - just another "yeah but". I find it exceptionally difficult to believe that you found Conservative voters who behaved the same way as Labour supporters did because quite frankly you couldn't put your head above the parapet and say you had voted tory without abuse. In fact I'm surprised to see so many on this thread but why would anyone debate on policy points when as usual it's not being done in good faith - it's being done with a hefty side ordering of being called thick, misinformed, selfish etc. As usual.

And the onus is on KS to change that.

I agree. He could start by publicly stating what a woman is and supporting women's sex based rights. The onus isn't on the voter to vote for labour in the hope that they will see the light and change. The onus is on the party to actually make themselves electable. And at the moment, they are not.

quite frankly you couldn't put your head above the parapet and say you had voted tory without abuse Another example of this Tory 'victimhood'. You clearly just can't handle debate.

In fact I'm surprised to see so many on this thread but why would anyone debate on policy points when as usual it's not being done in good faith Oh yes, you would love to debate policy points but, but...you are not able to!

In fact I'm surprised to see so many on this thread but why would anyone debate on policy points when as usual it's not being done in good faith - it's being done with a hefty side ordering of being called thick, misinformed, selfish etc. As usual.

It's the only way they know how to engage. It's some kind of sport. Them on the side of 'good' against the 'evil nasty Tories'. That's it.

You clearly just can't handle debate.

You don't know how to debate.

@Dafyddw

You clearly just can't handle debate.

You don't know how to debate.

LOL, now we're in the playground I see!

@elodie77

quite frankly you couldn't put your head above the parapet and say you had voted tory without abuse Another example of this Tory 'victimhood'. You clearly just can't handle debate.

In fact I'm surprised to see so many on this thread but why would anyone debate on policy points when as usual it's not being done in good faith Oh yes, you would love to debate policy points but, but...you are not able to!

What I mean is I have come across you in other threads and I find you really aren't all that well informed, you just like to insult people. Why would I waste my time with that sneering, belittling attitude you've got? I mean you even say about me "I can't handle debate". Debate isn't flinging insults around until the other person gets bored of you and goes away, and that's what you do. You're doing it now.

No Elodie. You are in the playground. People are giving you really quite rational responses, but you are either unable to understand those responses or you refuse to. Like so many of labour supporters. Intolerant aggressive group think.

I have always voted and campaigned for labour. I've done a lot of work to support the party. But the sinking realisation after the Brexit vote, and the vile intolerance of the left is that I can't stand many of those people. People with your attitude. This is not the left I knew and once loved. It's been replaced with mocking, jeering middle class champagne socialists. Who despise the people they were set up to support. So Elodie. Jeer away with your stinking attitude. And watch the labour supporters who do not fall in line with people like you (and there are way too many) walk away. Labour is fucked. And labour only has itself to blame.

What I mean is I have come across you in other threads and I find you really aren't all that well informed, you just like to insult people. Why would I waste my time with that sneering, belittling attitude you've got? I mean you even say about me "I can't handle debate". Debate isn't flinging insults around until the other person gets bored of you and goes away, and that's what you do. You're doing it now.

You seem to want to make this about me rather than talk about the topic! I haven't claimed to be that that well informed - I'm not but I'm doing my best! And it's simply not true that I just insult people - I have tried to debate these issues across many threads, but usually people just resort to the same lines over and over again without going into any detail or even attempting to back up their opinions (which is usually all they are, without any facts), which gets frustrating! When you point that out, people get upset. MN has always been about robust debate, hasn't it? I've asked many times for people to explain what current Conservative policies align with their values and no-one has been able to.

You do Elodie. Your responses are intolerant and aggressive. People have answered that question to you already. You don't seem to understand the answers.

People have answered that question to you already. Really?

Your responses are intolerant and aggressive. Read through your own posts.

Yet another variant on "people are thick for voting differently from me"

"I believed all the lies by the Brexit campaign, everything is now worse in this country, the handling of the Covid-19 pandemic by the Govt has been a complete mess and the PM and his cabinet are lying, incompetent fools who cause scandal after scandal but don't call me thick for voting them into office!"

No, I only speak for myself and I simply get tired of the misinformation, lies and idiocy I read in places like here and in right wing media.

I suspect you read too many Tory fanzines which appears to be where a lot of people on MN get their 'information' and opinions from.

Beckert you sound like a Daily Mail column - bot.

@elodie77 when you make dismissive sneering posts like this don't be shocked that people don't waste their time on you.

SexyNeckbeard If people are that sensitive then so be it. I stand behind all my comments you have quoted.

You just can't help yourself can you Elodie. And it's not just you. But it is people like you who have destroyed labour. What you get out of this I have no idea. But if your real goal is to get labour back in power, then, and this isn't just a message to you, it's a message to all people who conduct themselves like you do, labour is never going to get back into power with people like you at the face of it.

Why not start with listening to what people have to say. Try to understand why the working class, in those neglected pockets of the UK felt they needed to get out of Europe. Why they felt that the Labour party does not care about what they need, until it comes to voting day. Why they feel that even though the Tory party is a poor choice, labour is far far worse.

Can you really put yourself in to the situation of other people, the people that the Labour party was set up for, and understand why they have now rejected labour?

Try doing it without resorting to the first response that they're thick, uneducated, misinformed, like turkeys voting for Christmas. It's not that. It's something else.

Are you able to reflect and really think about what the real reason is? There's lots of hints on this thread that can guide you.

You may not like it. But try not to be so blinkered that it prevents you from understanding it.

If people are that sensitive then so be it. I stand behind all my comments you have quoted.

Well that's a shame then Elodie. You pretend to want to know the answer as to why. But, I don't really think you care about the answer. You don't care about the truth. And whilst people like you, that stand for the left, take that attitude, there will never be the positive change in society that you say that you want. Do you really want that change? Or do you just want to be rude and aggressive to people who don't agree with you. The first one would be a positive one, and you could work on how you could achieve that. The second one is just a quick adrenaline hit for you. Meaningless to everyone, including, ultimately, you.

I vote Tory because I believe that generally speaking free market economics work, and that we are all better off in a more prosperous society even if it is less equal.

I don’t vote labour because I see their general stance as likely to make every more equal but over all worse off.

Try to understand why the working class, in those neglected pockets of the UK felt they needed to get out of Europe. And how is it going for them now? You don't hold the Conservatives at all accountable for 11 years of neglect of these areas?

Why they feel that even though the Tory party is a poor choice, labour is far far worse. Why?

Can you really put yourself in to the situation of other people, the people that the Labour party was set up for, and understand why they have now rejected labour? I'm willing to be enlightened!

Are you able to reflect and really think about what the real reason is? There's lots of hints on this thread that can guide you. Go on, please explain!

@Asdf12345

I vote Tory because I believe that generally speaking free market economics work, and that we are all better off in a more prosperous society even if it is less equal.

I don’t vote labour because I see their general stance as likely to make every more equal but over all worse off.

I think that is a fair point and I respect that, but it doesn't seem to be the policy of Boris Johnson's government. I do think Brexit was a bad decision and it is proving to be so economically.

I disagree with you because I think a society can only function well if it is equal. Then we wouldn't have these pockets of deprivation, poverty, crime etc.

"Try to understand why the working class, in those neglected pockets of the UK felt they needed to get out of Europe. "

So how is getting out of Europe benefitting them ?

For example Cornwall will receive just over £1million from the government - a hundred times less than it would have received if the UK stayed in the EU.

After this week... Tory rebels are the hope, certainly not Starmer's Labour.
Jeremy Corbyn was always right. Unfortunately he's too old.

Elodie, The best explanation of where Labour has gone wrong is to be found in "Despised" by Chris Emburey.

Try to understand why the working class, in those neglected pockets of the UK felt they needed to get out of Europe.

I would love to @Dafyddw, do please tell us!

FreedomDrops Sat 18-Dec-21 11:38:18
"Try to understand why the working class, in those neglected pockets of the UK felt they needed to get out of Europe."

"I would love to @Dafyddw, do please tell us!"

On the voxpops used by the BBC, quite a few of the reasons given were to " Get rid of the Muslims".

And how is it going for them now? You don't hold the Conservatives at all accountable for 11 years of neglect of these areas?

I don't think it is going that well for them. I don't think labour would be better for them either. I feel heartbroken for them that they have been let down by all. These people are not Tories. They want their lives to be better. They just don't want labour because Labour doesn't represent them anymore. They say they do. But they don't. They mock and jeer them. Like you do when people try to debate with you. The great unwashed. And, in terms of the Brexit vote, they literally had nothing to lose. They already had nothing. It's hard to fall any further when you've already hit the bottom. Hence Brexit. Nothing to lose. But with the hope of positive change. How's this looking? Not like much at the moment. I do think one day it would work out ok in terms of employment / fair wages for people. But I'm not sure that I will see that in my lifetime, as it will take years to get through this and to something that looks normal and stable again. But then that doesn't matter if things work out better for the next generations. I didn't vote for Brexit by the way. Remember I was until recently a labour supporter and campaigner. But unlike so many, I was able to accept that position, that vote, and move on from it.

Why?

Much of these had been redwall areas. Yet those people were so desperate they voted them out. But I would say that the Tories didn't do much for them. Labour did even less. It's not a case that all is great under a Tory government, it literally is the better of two evils. Marginally. What do you think should happen with these communities of people who have shamefully been let down by everyone. In particular the party that should have always had their backs?

I'm willing to be enlightened!

Then read the thread rather than keep repeating the same questions.

Go on, please explain!

I already did. Unfortunately self reflection is simply that. Self reflection. I can't do it for you. You need to do it yourself. You could read the thread to try to understand. If you don't know how to really refect then maybe you should look at some refection models such as Gibbs reflective cycle to guide you.

Anyway. On that note. I'm out. I have things to do in the real world that don't involve spending the day 'debating' online.