How do people keep voting in the tories?

[chaosmaker]

I'd love it if tory voters could say why they vote the way they do given that there's ample evidence for how utterly incompetent they are (11 years). Especially in the last election. With that not-fit-for-purpose idiot in charge - edited by MNHQ
I also keep writing to my MP saying that if they are going to pretend we have democracy then they need to scrap FPTP.

AIBU that we should allow people with no sense to vote or
AINBU am I right in that people should have to factor history and rare sense into their decision making?

@Shehasadiamondinthesky

because shockingly all of the other parties are even worse. You wouldn't think that was even possible but it is.

Can you be specific in how a Starmer Labour government would be worse than a Johnson Tory government?

tens of billions wasted on a stupid Brexit that harms our country
tens of thousands dead due to incompetence.
cronyism and PPE contracts for Johnson's mates

@XingMing

Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, yep, that's exactly what I am saying.

We do not have systematic inequality in the UK. Like every country in the world, we have some clever people, some ambitious people, and a lot that just want a peaceful, happy healthy life.

What a sheltered life you lead.

Why don't you have a look at how inequality has grown in the UK over recent years?

Income inequality has risen steadily for decades, it has risen fastest over the last 10 years.

Even in the 2 years of the pandemic, the wealthiest 5% saw their wealth increase by 000s, everyone else lost out and that will become even worse as energy and tax increases hit the poorest, the hardest.

Someone struggling on 25k pa, will pay an extra £200 per year, yet multi millionaire Sunak will pay just 8k more, which is nothing if you have 400m in the bank.

@Stripyhoglets1

I'm a life long Labour supporter too. I do still vote for them but feel no sadness corbyn didn't become PM. Just so much sadness that with the tories as the alternative for over 20 years we've now left Europe and the NHS will be properly privatised, but in the clever way the tories do things that means we'll be paying insurance so their mates get rich - but still get a shit service.

We've left Europe?? I bet the EU would like that.

Hang on, the people who know them best, local electorate, keep voting them in as their MPs

Corbyn is in a safe seat. I live in a safe seat, you could put up a three legged donkey with the right colour rosette around here.

The publics belief in how left wing Corbyn/McDonnell are, are entirely based on what the rightwing press told you they were

Yes and voters are all too thick to look past it

I didn't need anyone to tell me anything about their politics having met and spoken with both on occasions over the last 30 yrs.

The only thing they have in common is associating with the same wing of the party. One is a working class boy who made good who remembers his roots and has a brain, the other is a prep school lightweight whose connections gained him a place in the party where he became a career Dave Spart.

C8H10N4O2 You're very touchy about being called thick although few posters actually have.

Can you give us an intelligent answer then as to what Conservatives policies you consider to be good for you personally and the country as a whole? Do you rate the performance of the current Government to date?

@elodie77

C8H10N4O2 You're very touchy about being called thick although few posters actually have.

Can you give us an intelligent answer then as to what Conservatives policies you consider to be good for you personally and the country as a whole? Do you rate the performance of the current Government to date?

Ah so I take issue with Brexit voters and Tory voters being called thick (usually in nice MC words) therefore I must be a Brexiteer and a Tory.

You are part of the problem about which you complain.

Trying to pour oil on water, I think most of us debating here are both part of the problem, and simultaneously also key to the solution. From across the party spectrum, everyone is seeing that politics and politicians are not improving the quality of life for anyone. Because of my age and situation in life, achieved without any inheritances unless you count a garden table and a picture I can say that my life is what I have made of it. I didn't breed young or have multiple complex or abusive relationships with unreliable men, and I am sorry for anyone who did. My head rules my heart, so my life is not perfect, but it's a damn sight better than most. Should I be apologising for making sensible choices, and recommending that other people make sensible pragmatic choices, even if they aren't all that exciting? There probably isn't a 'right' answer.

It does sound very dull and a bit vanilla, but my life is happy, healthy and stable. I read about about a lot of crisis/crises here on MN, and I shudder to think what might have happened if I had gone for a baby at 22 without finishing my degree. I would still be 65, but everything good I've done and enjoyed would probably not have happened.

XingMing Not sure if you are trying to project 'smugness'. Many people have attained/achieved what you have. Many also feel that with success goes obligations to others less fortunate/capable/able. It's called compassion and best shown in practical ways.
That is what is so abhorrent about the current government - so keen to discourage dependency they are encouraging brutality of thought.
I'm old enough to recall the generation nicknamed 'Thatchers Children' - don't want to ever see the like again.

@brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Still nobody wants to explain why they believe the Labour Party is “fanatical leftwing” ?

Perhaps you could, really interested to understand this viewpoint - perhaps considering the 2019 Labour manifesto and helping me understand which pledges were “extreme left” and how the current Labour party is apparently still “fanatically left wing”.

I just don’t recognise this description of the party either in 2019 or now, and if it’s used as a justification for voting Conservative, it would be really useful to understand better.

I’m not being goady or trying to set up an argument, I genuinely want to get my head around this viewpoint.

That was me and I should have been clearer. When I said left wing fanaticism I was referring to the rhetoric and language used by some leftists in the run up to the election - not referring to Labour policies. The absolute blinkered refusal to consider other points of view, haranguing anyone who doesn't think the same as them, calling other people thick, morons, brainwashed, racists. Think some of the examples on this thread x1000. No critical thinking at all, no ability to debate about various policy points just absolute unwavering, unquestioning support for Corbyn - and if you disagreed the abuse piled on from those calling each other comrade. When all you do is shut down debate with abuse you push people away. And I'm not saying that everyone on the left is like that obviously, but there was a very nasty undercurrent that was present at the time from some (quite a few) and it's no wonder that people said no thanks.

No critical thinking at all, no ability to debate about various policy points just absolute unwavering, unquestioning support for...

I'm afraid that is exactly what a lot of Tory voters are like, even in the face of a catastrophically incompetent and corrupt government people still support them 'because their values align with mine' like many people say here. And not one poster on this thread for example has been willing or able to debate Conservative policies.

I live in a very impoverished rural area. I am a teacher. The schools are falling to pieces, services for families are now virtually non existant, there isn't a single NHS dentist in 50 miles, the local minor injuries is closing, we have a food bank in my school.

But it's still a strong tory area because of 2 things as far as I can see: it's generally full of racist, anti- European people who are not afraid to admit it (a recent spate of anti Eastern European violence confirms this) and there's a lot of older people who vote and younger people who don't.

So to continue in the theme that @C8H10N4O2 mentioned, to add to thick, we now have racist and old.

@XingMing

It does sound very dull and a bit vanilla, but my life is happy, healthy and stable. I read about about a lot of crisis/crises here on MN, and I shudder to think what might have happened if I had gone for a baby at 22 without finishing my degree. I would still be 65, but everything good I've done and enjoyed would probably not have happened.

Shush. Many people have children and do degrees. There's me, and about 50+ parents that I know of in my university (a very prominent London one)

Mines the youngest baby at out meet-ups but we also have other babies under 6 months.

No need to discourage others just because you aren't resilient

It's actually fact where I live. The voting figures show that those who vote are predominantly 60 plus. Turnout under 30 was 2% last election.

And yes, it is a racist area and very predominantly white. It had the largest ukip vote last election. They came in second to the tories which pretty much sums up the area.

I am an "old" voter and having lived in many different areas in my time I recognise that there are many types of tory - some for economic reasons etc but where I live it is definitely a race and disenfranchisement thing. That's recognised by the local Tory MP , self serving sack of shite in a safe seat that he is.

So to continue in the theme that @C8H10N4O2 mentioned, to add to thick, we now have racist and old.

I find this 'victimhood' stance of Tory supporters really strange - THAT is shutting down debate, SexyNeckbeard!

And not one poster on this thread for example has been willing or able to debate Conservative policies.

Yes, I'm in that category. Able to debate Conservative policies but not willing to on MN where voting Conservative and/or Leave or admitting to being well-off tends to result in a pile-on which verges on the offensive at times.

I vote Conservative because their values most closely align to mine. I wouldn't ever vote LibDem or Labour for that reason. Nor would I expect to be able to persuade a lifelong Labour voter to vote Conservative. That's fine, I respect their right to hold differing views. If a new party emerges that better aligns with my values, I would absolutely vote for them.

As for individual leaders, I like Keir Starmer far more than Boris. I watch PMQs most weeks and he generally wipes the floor with Boris due to his grasp of the finer detail. I thinks KS is a decent man, albeit I appreciate that the party don't like his tendency to sit on the fence. I'd like to see Sunak replace Boris sooner rather than later.

But @phlebasconsidered, the problem with that stance is that it assumes that the motivations for voting Tory are steeped in prejudice, ignorance and hatred. It’s not hard to see how that isn’t a convincing argument for voting for Labour. In other words, it presupposes that the only rational and indeed moral position is one that is not racist and that stems from younger generations and that any divergence from that view makes you a knuckle dragging thick racist who is probably old. And that isn’t a vote winner.

It is actually quite logical and sensible for someone from a deprived area to vote in their interests, which is staying out of the EU. I wanted to stay, but I’m not from a deprived area and being in the EU benefited me. It didn’t benefit many working class people and I recognise that.

If someone can convince me that a system can be set up that avoid food banks while not having ultimate and complete dependence on welfare, convince me these crumbling schools (I see shiny brand new academies all around me) are purely a product of Cameron / May / Johnson and that Starmer has a coherent plan for the NHS then all is well. But actually no - I can’t vote for Starmer while he thinks men are women, and I think that’s also the stance of others on here.

Oh, I’m not trying to imply that Tory voters are victims. That’s massively over complicating the situation. It is simply that to win people over to your cause, insulting them doesn’t tend to be particularly conducive!

I vote Conservative because their values most closely align to mine.

One has to wonder which values might those be - systematic dishonesty? Cronyism? One rule for the plebs, another for us? Breaking Covid rules to hook up with your mistress while others die alone without anyone by their side? Corruption? Authoritarianism? Incompetence? Dog whistle tactics? Fairy tale politics where you promise the world but can't deliver anything?

But you are unwilling to debate because people might disagree with you.

Tories and their supporters seem to expect to carry on causing chaos and misery with absolute impunity and not face any criticism while simultaneously whinging about there not being an effective opposition. They want to have their cake and eat it.

Labour governments had their fair share of incompetence and scandal but the spotlight tends to be on the party in power at the time. As it should be.

The death of David Kelly and the dossier on WMD comes to mind as a key event in Blair's government. The Labour government was rightly criticised for that.

And, to reiterate, I don't think Boris has been a good PM and hasn't held some of his ministers to an appropriate standard of conduct. I think the 1922 Committee will get rid of him in the next 6 months unless he cleans up his act.

@elodie77

So to continue in the theme that @C8H10N4O2 mentioned, to add to thick, we now have racist and old.

I find this 'victimhood' stance of Tory supporters really strange - THAT is shutting down debate, SexyNeckbeard!

Still waiting to hear your answer to my questions up thread. How many doorsteps did you stand on for Labour? How many hours spent canvassing for how many years and across how many elections?

Voters are "thick" if they don't do as they are told, anyone who disagrees with calling voters "thick" must be a Tory, anyone declining to engage with you must be playing some sort of victim card.

Keep going if you want another Tory government. These are exactly the attitudes which turn off working class voters in their droves.

How many doorsteps did you stand on for Labour? How many hours spent canvassing for how many years and across how many elections?

I didn't and I don't understand the point of your questions?

Voters are "thick" if they don't do as they are told No, but what would you call people who in the face of all that is going wrong continue to support this government? Or the fishermen and farmers who mostly voted for Brexit despite warnings and are now facing ruin?

SexyNeckbeard and manysummersago. Good posts.

@elodie77, perhaps that’s the problem and there was a post a few pages ago that brilliantly summed things up.

A vote for the conservatives isn’t a resounding shriek of support for Boris and all he does. It is a vote which resignedly says ‘this is the best out of what we’ve currently got.’

And the onus is on KS to change that.