How do people keep voting in the tories?

[chaosmaker]

I'd love it if tory voters could say why they vote the way they do given that there's ample evidence for how utterly incompetent they are (11 years). Especially in the last election. With that not-fit-for-purpose idiot in charge - edited by MNHQ
I also keep writing to my MP saying that if they are going to pretend we have democracy then they need to scrap FPTP.

AIBU that we should allow people with no sense to vote or
AINBU am I right in that people should have to factor history and rare sense into their decision making?

Because the tories have cleverly engineered a cultural shift that voting left is a bad thing due to wokism/out of touch elites/trying to stop brexit etc.

The message by the other side is much stronger. Vote for us or you're a 'bigot' etc.

You cannot publically come out and admit to supporting the Conservative party if you're below a certain age, genuinely.

I don't like either, but being accused of racism etc. Is a stronger tactic than 'Wokery.'

It's ridiculous. Wait til they find out it's not just white/mc people who vote for them

@mellongoose I congratulate you on what must be an incredibly charmed, sheltered, or constrained life (so far) if you genuinely think that those life events I mentioned are "exceptional".

@RunningInTheWind Most Jews I know have dual nationality. I don't know if its just the Jews I know- they range from frum to Reform. But as Jews often marry people from other countries such as USA/Israel, their children often have dual nationality.I know some Jews who have also claimed German citizenship due to Brexit. Jews who have made aliyah and then come back (or their parents did)- they are likely to have Israeli citizenship. off the top of my head, i can count on the hands on my fingers the Jews I know who don't have dual citizenship (me included).

My MIL says its a good idea to keep another citizenship as a backup in case there is *touchwood another holocaust.

Wow! The anti-semites are out.

I’m a Jew. I’m British. I was born here - as were my parents and their parents.

Yet we have people on this thread who are quite insistent I’m not really British and am in fact a terrorist risk.

You dont actually have to have Dual Nationality, having the potential is enough to be stripped of your British citizenship.

[quote Newcomer68]@mellongoose I congratulate you on what must be an incredibly charmed, sheltered, or constrained life (so far) if you genuinely think that those life events I mentioned are "exceptional".[/quote]
I ask again. At what point is it acceptable to stop being responsible for looking after your children albeit with help from society. I don't see any of those events as a reason. Life can be incredibly shit for many reasons but raising your children has to be the most important responsibility.

Again, I'm surprised this is a controversial statement.

@kittykutty

Because the tories have cleverly engineered a cultural shift that voting left is a bad thing due to wokism/out of touch elites/trying to stop brexit etc.

The message by the other side is much stronger. Vote for us or you're a 'bigot' etc.

You cannot publically come out and admit to supporting the Conservative party if you're below a certain age, genuinely.

I don't like either, but being accused of racism etc. Is a stronger tactic than 'Wokery.'

It's ridiculous. Wait til they find out it's not just white/mc people who vote for them

Wait til they find out it's not just white/mc people who vote for them This is the tragedy. I can see why wealthy people vote Tory - but some of the most disadvantaged are voting for a party that hates them and makes their lives worse, over and over. It's a triumph that Tories can command so much support from people who are severely disadvantaged by Tory governments. On the other hand, any time there's a thread about something diabolical that's happened at work, several posters pop up and say "that's nothing, I was fired for laziness because I wouldn't work a 96 hour shift for 2p" as if exploitation is a virtue. It's an odd mentality that I don't understand; a mixture of fear, feudalism and deference.

Once again @Runninginthewind, it's not posters saying this, it's the British government. I too fall under the umbrella for citizenship denial. It's a fucking disgrace.

The first mistake you're making is thinking they are incompetent... they're anything but that.

They are extremely competent and successful at achieving their aims of enriching their own personal wealth whilst also enacting the corporatist agendas of their Corporate/Banker/Establishment puppet masters.

OP. How? Well people see the world differently which makes life diverse. The less diversity of thought you have in life the less likely we are as a species to adapt and develop complex thought. Maybe you should try and think about other people's experiences and then you might not realise politics is a binary right or wrong decision. It's a bit simplistic to say one political party equals good and the other equals bad. There are poor people who may not qualify for benefits so they prefer to pay less tax. Likewise a wealthy person might prefer a high tax/social spend party if they have a government contract that pays them well.

Beyond me how people can still vote Tory, apart from the gross incompetence, what about all of the deaths directly resulting from their policies and austerity? All the money going in the pockets of their rich friends? The NHS on its knees and front line workers getting no pay rises for years. Racism. Islamaphobia, sexism. The incredible amounts of lies and misinformation. The blood on their hands. The 165% increase in rough sleepers. Children not being able to have a warm bed to sleep in, not able to have three meals a day. Hundreds of childrens centres, youth centres, libraries cut and diminished. Broken promises. 30% cut in mental health beds. Higher rates of suicide due to cuts. 20000 less police officers. More food banks in the UK than there are McDonald's. Singing billion pound contracts for nothing. Privatising the NHS. Homophobia.

I could go on and on. But there's people who STILL vote for them. They don't care about us.

@RunningInTheWind erm I am Jewish too. I am just pointing out that this law affects people with dual nationality/foreign parents and Jews are more likely than the average white brit to have those.

@RunningIntheWind I mean, my husband's father and paternal grandparents were born here, but his mum is from overseas. His sisters moved to israel so their children would have dual nationality plus one of his sisters married an american...I actually doubt that any of my MIL's kids would marry british nationals so all the future grandkids would be dual nationals! Many young jews i know seem to have married other Jews from USA/Israel/France; its a good way to expand the dating pool...

@mellongoose
These life events are unusual and exceptional. I believe the vast majority of if parents can and should be wholly responsible for looking after, feeding and properly raising their children. I'm astounded that this is a controversial view in today's society

In an ideal world yes, but we don't live in one.

So whilst you might expect that, what to do when parents decide not to bring up and be responsible for their children?

31% of children, thats 4million! live in poverty here in the UK, based on this governments rational for what poverty means.

Thats a failure of the state, in education, wages and the benefits system.

I don't really see why the children of dysfunctional families should be punished for societies failure, all it does is guarantee the next generation of failed families.

@Monkeyrules

OP. How? Well people see the world differently which makes life diverse. The less diversity of thought you have in life the less likely we are as a species to adapt and develop complex thought. Maybe you should try and think about other people's experiences and then you might not realise politics is a binary right or wrong decision. It's a bit simplistic to say one political party equals good and the other equals bad. There are poor people who may not qualify for benefits so they prefer to pay less tax. Likewise a wealthy person might prefer a high tax/social spend party if they have a government contract that pays them well.

There are poor people who may not qualify for benefits so they prefer to pay less tax. And they have been hit with 10% rise in NI - a tax by any other name, so if they voted Tory, it hasn't worked out very well for them - aside from 20% VAT - another Tory tax rise.

@RunningIntheWind of course maybe this is a london centric view as london is quite international anyway (so maybe its not just Jews, but Londoners in general have more international connections). I belong to a central london synagogue and half the congregation seem to be american. But most BritishJews live in London anyway...

This is the tragedy. I can see why wealthy people vote Tory - but some of the most disadvantaged are voting for a party that hates them and makes their lives worse, over and over.

It's not a tragedy for people to have different values. A Christian or Muslim is more aligned to the Conservative party. Someone who came migrated and worked hard might not support free everything for everyone (and I don't mean funding the welfare system, I mean the ludicrous policies put out by Labour). Not all non white people are poor. Not all working class people are on benefits, and feel Labour doesn't represent them. I'm not surprised the white working class vote Tory in the slightest

I dislike the "I feel sorry" idea because it's so patronising. People have their reasons, assuming people are naive and uneducated or whatever never goes down well in trying to persuade them

@kittykutty I can't comment on Islam as I wasn't brought up in that faith, but if you really think "Christian...is more aligned to the Conservative party" you will probably enjoy the Tory Jesus Twitter account....

[quote Octavia174]@mellongoose
These life events are unusual and exceptional. I believe the vast majority of if parents can and should be wholly responsible for looking after, feeding and properly raising their children. I'm astounded that this is a controversial view in today's society

In an ideal world yes, but we don't live in one.

So whilst you might expect that, what to do when parents decide not to bring up and be responsible for their children?

31% of children, thats 4million! live in poverty here in the UK, based on this governments rational for what poverty means.

Thats a failure of the state, in education, wages and the benefits system.

I don't really see why the children of dysfunctional families should be punished for societies failure, all it does is guarantee the next generation of failed families.[/quote]
If you're using the 'relative poverty' figure, please don't. By definition you will always have a large percentage relatively poor compared to the average.

Absolutely poverty has gone down in recent years, although one child living in absolutely poverty is one too many. That is why there is a safety net of a welfare state.

Even then....parents are still responsible for ensuring their children are fed, clothed, sheltered, sent to school and taught right from wrong.

Some of the most deprived children I know grew to well rounded adults and ended up in fulfilling careers. Why? Because their parents, even though they had nothing, put their children's needs first and gave them confidence and ambition.

@kittykutty i think most muslims probably do vote labour. whopping 72%!

[quote Newcomer68]@kittykutty I can't comment on Islam as I wasn't brought up in that faith, but if you really think "Christian...is more aligned to the Conservative party" you will probably enjoy the Tory Jesus Twitter account....[/quote]

Well obviously not all. I'm also speaking from my upbringing/experience around Africans practicing Christianity. They definitely align more with the conservatives. I'm an atheist myself. If people believe in traditional values they won't be supporting Labour - even if they don't particularly like the tories, they'll probably do it just so Labour don't get in

[quote onlychildhamster]@kittykutty i think most muslims probably do vote labour. whopping 72%![/quote]

I can't verify that stat. I don't know what the figure is myself. My point is about the identity politics, and the insinuation that anyone voting conservative is an old racist who're caricature.

I should've put "some/many" because I know people liek to be pedantic.

(More than 1 in 4 is still a fair proportion imo, considering the amount of stereotyping that goes on)

A Christian or Muslim is more aligned to the Conservative party

You've got to be joking. Certainly nothing Christian in the 'values' promoted by Tories. Maybe right wing fundamentalist Christians but that's the appeal Trump, Johnson's mentor, has too.

[quote Newcomer68]@kittykutty I can't comment on Islam as I wasn't brought up in that faith, but if you really think "Christian...is more aligned to the Conservative party" you will probably enjoy the Tory Jesus Twitter account....[/quote]
I think the point is that ethnic minority communities tend, broadly, to be more socially conservative and whilst they’ve historically voted Labour more often than Tory, the Labour party continues to assume that they’ll always have the majority of the BAME vote blindly; but seem not to realise that on average BAME communities are more socially conservative and more religious and woke Labour policies are in direct conflict with their culture and beliefs. They don’t want their elderly mother being called a bigot because she objects to a trans woman carer; boys identifiying as girls and thinking they have the right to use female toilets and changing rooms is not going to go down well in a school where most girls wear a hijab.

@kittykutty www.survation.com/british-muslims-retain-strong-link-to-labour-but-leadership-ratings-lag-those-of-the-party/

I think that impression is from their rhetoric against immigration, which incites hatred against existing immigrants.

Its true that its not only white people that vote tory, they have a strong following from hindus, Jews and Chinese voters, but these tend to be 'established' immigrant groups whose socio-economic profile is often comparable or better than British whites.

Also Islam is quite collectivist in thought, there is a huge emphasis on helping the needy, its one of the five pillars of Islam. A lot of modern muslim countries are fairly socialist in nature, not cuban/ Venezuela style socialism but the manifestos of the ruling political party tend to emphasize helping the poor/state playing a bigger role.