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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How do people keep voting in the tories?

946 replies

chaosmaker · 14/12/2021 11:19

I'd love it if tory voters could say why they vote the way they do given that there's ample evidence for how utterly incompetent they are (11 years). Especially in the last election. With that not-fit-for-purpose idiot in charge - edited by MNHQ
I also keep writing to my MP saying that if they are going to pretend we have democracy then they need to scrap FPTP.

AIBU that we should allow people with no sense to vote or
AINBU am I right in that people should have to factor history and rare sense into their decision making?

OP posts:
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TooBigForMyBoots · 14/12/2021 19:53

Labour had been opposing the Govt's measures on this for months before Rashford got involved but it was never reported.

The UK has a very right wing press, so people only know what they have been fed. That's why Labour Woman MP Calls Government Scum received way more attention than the Male Tory MP Jokes About Bombing Female, Opposition Member's Office that happened at the same time.

It's why there are shouts of They Don't Know What A Woman Is, when the reforms to the GRA are under Conservatives whose starting point is TWAW.

It's why antisemitic claims against JC are still discussed more than the Tory government introducing legislation that makes it easier to strip British Jews (and black brits, brown ones, Irish ones, anyone with a foreign granny or spouse) of their nationality. And people are arguing that it's OKShockShockShock.

AndreaC67 · 14/12/2021 19:56

I'd like to know which company CEOs Starmer has contacted personally to take them to task over this. Or is he expecting the state to cough up?

Yes, the state should, just as they paid for Furlough and fraudulent business loans or gave PPE and testing contracts to Tory donors.

Do you think someone on a v low wage, mandated by the state to stay at home with no pay, should live on fresh air?

Large companies aren't the issue, most have decent company sick schemes, didn't you know that?

C8H10N4O2 · 14/12/2021 19:56

IBU that we should allow people with no sense to vote or

Yes because telling people they are thick for voting differently from you has been such a successful strategy for momentum run Labour that even now its still an issue on the doorstep.

Oh and we had a referendum on proportional voting just ten years ago and it was resoundingly rejected and there is no substantial weight of public opinion to fight for another one. Have you forgotten that?

girlmom21 · 14/12/2021 20:09

I just remembered something that happened before the last GE. A Labour campaigner came to my door and basically went off on a rant that everyone who voted Leave is a xenophobe (he used those exact words) and that we could trust Corbyn to do everything he said he would, including getting us the best post-Brexit trade deal before a second referendum, 'because he said he would'.

He gave me a leaflet which showed all the negative points about our local Tory MP. I didn't realise the other side showed the benefits of the Labour candidate until he'd left, because he didn't bother talking to me about what Labour had to offer, he just wanted to slag off the Tories.

I feel that that doorstep campaigners actions are basically what Starmer has done for the last 18 months.

chaosmaker · 14/12/2021 20:10

I'm not a labour voter, as I've said previously in this thread. Other parties are available! Maybe I should have said that you have to look at the voting records of those standing... voting by soundbite is just so basic.

Again, I don't vote labour.

All the points about cutbacks are true, despite what is said. I never understood blair's popularity either. It was obvious how he was from the speeches he gave at the time.

Voting to make yourself poorer and have everything not nailed down sold to private companies is not gaining control. My energy company recently went pop so I got given to 'British Gas' who are now owned by centrica I think it is. Things are not just privatised but owned by companies in other countries. How can it be as important to them to run our companies properly as it would be to us. truss is now going around the world pretending to be thatcher and doing trade deals just to do trade deals with sometimes dodgy countries.

Everything this lot do is for the appearance. They say one thing and do the opposite. How many u turns have there been? There is nothing vote worthy about them and habit is no excuse. Neither is lack of research.

OP posts:
girlmom21 · 14/12/2021 20:11

@Nayday

I don't think voters always look at party manifestos or understand policy. Statements like "because Jeremy Corbyn" etc. Then vote for another personality or what they think their party of choice stands for.

Then cases like Arthur and Star happen, cue public hand wringing and "oh something must be done, we must think of the children", whilst planning on voting for a party that isn't just cutting social care funding, but butchering it. "I'm not paying more taxes etc"

The Tories posture and point the finger at Social Workers, privatise service provision and so the dance goes on.

When we realise that we do need to fund our services properly if we truly want to look after the vunerable maybe voting change will come.

Those children were let down by individuals. They weren't let down by funding. Don't use their names to push your political agenda.
Grumpyosaurus · 14/12/2021 20:15

I don't vote Tory, but I can tell OP that our local Labour candidate at the last general election knew exactly why he wasn't going to unseat the Tory incumbent. Because JC was an anti-Semite. He told us, when we told him why he wouldn't get our vote, that he was hearing this on doorstep after doorstep.

And this in a fairly rural constituency (the sort where some metropolitan types assume we're all racists and homophobes).

And incidentally, I didn't reply on the mainstream press for my view of Corbyn. I read the Jewish Chronicle online, on the basis that Jews would know what an anti-Semite looked like better than I did.

Grumpyosaurus · 14/12/2021 20:16

*rely (not reply).

roarfeckingroarr · 14/12/2021 20:23

Because I don't want to pay higher taxes and I believe in a smaller state, I do realise the Tories have raised taxes, so yeah I'm a bit screwed about who to vote for.

C8H10N4O2 · 14/12/2021 20:30

Maybe I should have said that you have to look at the voting records of those standing... voting by soundbite is just so basic.

More variations on "people are thick for voting differently from me" doesn't make the case any more compelling.

Have you tried asking people in red wall seats why they changed generational allegiances or will you continue to dismiss them all as thick xenophobes who need to be told what to do by you?

DdraigGoch · 14/12/2021 20:41

There was a single vote on the AV system. PR is a much better system and the electorate could vote for who they wanted rather than tactical nonesense which I'm not a fan of. Especially when your party of choice crawls into bed with someone you don't want to govern a la the lib dem/tory nightmare

We've got PR here in Wales. So two parties I don't want to govern are in bed together. Labour reduced the voting age to 16 in order to cling on to power. Obviously couldn't find enough adults to vote for them.

onlychildhamster · 14/12/2021 20:53

@Packingsoapandwater thank you for your link about the NHS. it is very interesting that it was underfunded even in 1957. i cannot imagine the uk without the nhs, but yet at the same time, I can't imagine how this can continue...

Stripyhoglets1 · 14/12/2021 20:54

:15MrsOrMiss
The bedroom tax was a coalition law - not a Labour law

C8H10N4O2 · 14/12/2021 20:55

There was a single vote on the AV system. PR is a much better system and the electorate could vote for who they wanted rather than tactical nonesense which I'm not a fan of

Ah, the wrong kind of proportional voting. But it was the option which favoured the Liberals in much the way that FPTP has favoured the two main parties which tells you all you need to know about the purity of their motivations as well.

Why don't you just cancel democracy entirely and rule by dictat since you know what is best for everyone?

Stripyhoglets1 · 14/12/2021 20:59

"FireworkParrot
conservative government has been a shit show. I'm embarrassed to say I voted for them to be honest but what is worse is that there is no credible opposition. How can Labour not be winning voters like me over when the current government is so terrible? They should be absolutely wiping the floor with the Tories and they aren't. They look equally shambolic and that is the most depressing thing. There is no decent option for voters to elect, it's a terrible state of affairs."

I don't understand what you're not seeing though. Watch them challenging the govt in the HOC - look at their media pages - they are challenging things that need challenging.

chaosmaker · 14/12/2021 21:01

Where did I tell people which party to vote for? I just suggested gently that people would be better off (for their own good) doing some basic research before the cross went in the box!

OP posts:
TooBigForMyBoots · 14/12/2021 21:02

Jeremy Corbyn and the Labout Party didn't bring in legislation that will make it easier to rid the country of British minorities (including British Jews). Boris Johnson's Conservative government did.

Will they use it? I wouldn't put anything past them at this point.🙄 Even if they don't, they've enabled future governments to!😱

FangsForTheMemory · 14/12/2021 21:06

There are an awful lot of people repeating Tory lines on here and I can't help wondering who's paying them to.

CrotchetyQuaver · 14/12/2021 21:06

Because this lot are believed to be a better bet than the alternatives on offer...

NannyOggsWhiskyStash · 14/12/2021 21:09

@Newcomer68

Fundamentally, because they don't care about the consequences of their actions on the less fortunate members of society and they think all immigrants are evil, grasping, subhuman monsters. (I often wonder, under this lot, what would have happened to World War Two refugees seeking sanctuary from the Nazis. I can see the likes of Farage foaming at the mouth and whipping up hysteria and hatred even now.)

Because people have short memories. Eighteen years of Thatcherism it took last time, before they were kicked out (and then it was for a centre left Tory lite party - though I'd go back to those years in a heartbeat).

Because their parents always voted Tory - mother's excuse. Right up until the Poll Tax she was a devout Tory, which given our living circumstances and social position, made exactly zero sense.

Because they've been "brought up that way" (a reason given only this week by a Tory farmer in North Shropshire).

Because they're okay with sleaze, corruption, lying on an international scale, and making England (in particular) a laughing stock overseas. Plus they're just fine with what's left of the UK (or England, anyway - there's still hope for Ireland and Scotland and maybe even Wales) being sold off to American, Chinese and Russian capitalists. That includes the NHS being dismantled, education policies being dictated by Gove and his mates (I know he's not education secretary currently but he did a whole heap of damage when he was).

Then there's the whole regional unfairness of the Social Care bill and the right to protest gradually being eroded, and the Human Rights Act being dismantled. (Anyone who doesn't believe this is happening might like to read a few news sources that aren't the BBC, the Sun, the Express, the Telegraph, or the Daily Mail.) Terribly convenient, all these smokescreens about Peppa Pig and Downing Street Christmas Parties a year ago and the amazingly timed new Covid variant. (No, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. Yes, I believe the virus is real. But some of the timings are very, very convenient. Anyone but me wondering where that recent death that occured in someone with the new variant was? Just a county will do.)

Because some of them are filthy rich and will never suffer enough financial or material loss in this lifetime to make them understand what they've done. And those who aren't filthy rich are often on nice comfy final salary pensions and haven't had to face reality since the early 1990s or even before. Though with the cost of living increases heading our way next year who knows, maybe even they'll start realising they're not untouchable.

Because some parts of the country are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome on a mass scale. (So, Red Wall, how's that Levelling Up thing working out for you right now?!)

Because they're brainwashed by the mainstream media and critical thinking is not taught in our education system.

Because they lack the ability to think through the logical consequences of Tory/coalition policies. What we're living through now is a direct result of decisions taken in 2010-11. What we face in 2030 will be a direct result of decisions taken and legislation created now, and much of it doesn't look pretty, at least for England.

And sadly, because we don't have PR in the UK and we currently lack an effective opposition.

I don't think Labour is perfect, by any means. If I voted with my heart (and the fact that I still care, despite everything, about the future of this insane species I apparently belong to), I'd vote Green. But in the circumstances, I'll vote pragmatically for whoever has the best chance, locally, of getting the Tories out. (Despite living in a constituency where a Beach Donkey with a blue rosette would get elected by most of the population I live in hope that demographics and the laws of physics may change that at some point.)

Oh, yeah, and obviously Corbyn was the AntiChrist who would have destroyed the country.

I think I love you Grin
DdraigGoch · 14/12/2021 21:10

@GertrudePerkinsPaperyThing

Sadiq Khan is a perfectly good mayor.

Keir Starmer is an ideal PM - thoughtful, does what he actually thinks is right, intelligent, understands the issues and is hard working. Has integrity. People just don’t like him because at the moment the Tory press tells them not to. A successful barrister is exactly the kind of person - with the kind of mind - that is best for running the country. Logical. People just don’t like it as it’s “boring”.

Starmer's policies:
  1. Increase income tax on anyone earning over £75k. I don't earn that sort of money. But I would quite like to earn that sort of money in the future, so the message I get is "don't bother bettering yourself, we'll just take it off you".
  1. Abolish Universal Credit. Actually UC is a very good scheme. By all means tinker with details like the amount paid, sanctions etc. but the system itself is
  1. Implement the "Green New Deal". A wishlist of unworkable proposals. The only way we are going to generate enough emission-free energy to power the country is using nuclear, but you won't hear this lot proposing to do that. Zero carbon by 2030 is impossible.
  1. No more military intervention. Iraq wasn't a popular move but I can't have been the only person appalled at the way the international community have abandoned people in many countries to their fates at the hands of extremists. Sometimes military intervention is needed.
  1. Nationalise the railways, Royal Mail, energy and water. The railways are effectively under state control now and are already falling apart. Micromanagement from Whitehall has been the cause of most of the problems over the last 20 years. I'm quite happy with Royal Mail as things stand, and I am also happy with Octopus Energy. Though energy prices are ridiculous at the moment, but that's down to no government having built any nuclear power stations since Major.
  1. Full voting rights for EU nationals. Why? If I moved to France tomorrow I wouldn't be able to go out and vote.
  1. Repeal the Trade Union Act. I'm a union member myself but I don't want to go back to the days of a show of hands in the car park, secondary picketing and workers sleeping on the job.
  1. Abolish the House of Lords. If you actually follow what goes on in the Lords, you will see that our revising chamber does a lot of good. We don't need yet another load of populists, thanks. We need the experience seen in the upper house with their ability to do only what is right, not what is popular.
  1. "Pull down obstacles that limit opportunities and talent." But not actually giving any details of what these are or what they plan to do about it.
  1. Provide an effective opposition. Well they've failed to deliver here, haven't they?
blablablafoghorn · 14/12/2021 21:11

They are gone next election for sure

Beckert · 14/12/2021 21:13

@FangsForTheMemory

There are an awful lot of people repeating Tory lines on here and I can't help wondering who's paying them to.
There are an awful lot of people on here repeating (insert party of choice) on here, and I can't help wondering who's paying them to...
FreedomFaith · 14/12/2021 21:16

@inkworks273

I honestly don't know why working class people would ever vote conservative. I'm in Scotland and we NEVER vote Tory and yet here we are still landed with them.
Well that's not true. Snp have lost seats in the recent past to tories, and big seats, one was Alex Salmonds. And we have tory mp's and msp's up here, and councillors. So we do vote tory. No worse than snp to be fair.
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/12/2021 21:16

@Brieandcamembert

Because I believe you get out of life what you put in so I don't believe in socialism.
So you think the NHS is morally wrong then.
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