How do people keep voting in the tories?

[chaosmaker]

I'd love it if tory voters could say why they vote the way they do given that there's ample evidence for how utterly incompetent they are (11 years). Especially in the last election. With that not-fit-for-purpose idiot in charge - edited by MNHQ
I also keep writing to my MP saying that if they are going to pretend we have democracy then they need to scrap FPTP.

AIBU that we should allow people with no sense to vote or
AINBU am I right in that people should have to factor history and rare sense into their decision making?

@Bells3032 BTL is not viable for a working person on 40% tax rate. That is true, i have done the math and it makes no sense for me and DH to keep our flat as a rental when we buy a bigger flat one day so we will have to sell it. my ex neighbour downstairs who has kept her flat is barely breaking even.

However, that isn't true for landlords who buy through incorporated companies, build to rent (large companies) or retired landlords. All the tories' BTL taxes do is to professionalize 'landlording' so that its only viable for those with a portfolio/ build to rent companies while penalizing people like you who might want to keep 1 property as a backup plan. Also the Tories' brainchild of help to buy only increased property prices in London with their 40% Equity loans.

At the very least, Labour would probably introduce more regulations for renting which would make life better for renters.

@Stripyhoglets1

Because the tories have cleverly engineered a cultural shift that voting left is a bad thing due to wokism/out of touch elites/trying to stop brexit etc. Escalated by having the ridiculous Jeremy Corbyn as leader for years. And tbh the issue of Labour supporting self ID is part of that problem. So working class people who never would have voted tory now will - as they feel out of touch with Labour. Very frustrating when the majority of Labour policies would probably make life better for people - and the tories really are only in it for the wealthy and elites.

I agree with every word of this. I'm furious at Labour.

Because a lot of peoole with decent income want to protect it

Because the daily mail is the most popular paper and people believe that all their hard earned cash is going on asylum seekers and benefits scroungers

Because people care about 'charisma' more than honesty and principles, they want someone with 'character'...remember the abuse Gordon brown and Theresa May got for being boring?

Because people have ridiculously low expectations for MPs...I hear 'what do you expect, they all lie' so often so people don't bother about scandals

Because people are inherently selfish and don't actually care about anyone worse off than themselves, unless they have a disabled relative or something they don't care that we are abusing disabled peoples rights

The rich can buy their way out of the crisis in education.

The one I cant fathom is the NHS though, most people regardless of background use it and don't want to see it go, and yet people vote for people who consistently underfund it. Saying that, labour's pfi strategy was an absolute fiasco

@JustDanceAddict

Corbyn, unfortunately was unelectable for various reasons.

I loved Jeremy. I’m not sure how many of his policies would work in practice but I do genuinely believe he cared for the people of the country which is more than can be said for bojo.

Kier however, utter house plant.

Lib Dems don’t get me started

@MrsColon

Because Labour have lost touch with actual working class voters - they're basically a Westminster left-wing elite echo chamber. The people they represent don't support gender self-ID, or any of Labour's other woke policies - they want work that pays a living wage, law and order, an end to gang crime, better education for poorer kids.

And this.

@MorningStarling

People will still vote Tory until another party can demonstrate that they would be a better alternative.

A lot of Labour supporters can't seem to grasp this: (most) Tory voters know they are terrible, but are slightly less terrible than the alternatives.

Labour's focus is always on what the Tories are doing wrong, not what Labour would do that's better. I don't really care about things that are trivial in the grand scheme - Xmas parties, the source of funds for redecoration. All parties have negatives - whether it's Labour's deputy leader calling her opponents scum, or Labour having to sack an MP for harassing her constituents, or the SNP seemingly only allowing white candidates to stand for MP, or the Lib Dem leader having to stand down because of his views on homosexuality.

When you vote, you're not picking the best party, you're picking the one that you think will fuck things up the least. Only Labour can realistically beat the Tories, yet really, what do Labour actually stand for? Unless they can present plausible policies that they can show are financially viable without putting up taxes (fucking up the electorate in the short term, Corbyn-style) or resorting to borrowing (fucking it up for the long term, a la Blair/Brown years).

Most importantly: instead of asking why people still vote Tory, the real question is why won't people vote Labour?

This is exactly what I came here to say

@DirectionToPerfection

I find the argument that 'the rest are worse' pretty unconvincing.

People clearly have very low standards if they believe a dishonest, incompetent, self-serving buffoon is a better bet for Prime Minister than someone like Keir Starmer.

Or perhaps Labour are just doing a spectacularly shit job of letting people know why they should vote for them. As a previous poster said Labour just seem to focus on what Tories do wrong, but can't give a convincing argument on why they would be better.

And frankly all the self ID stuff and denial of women will potentially close a lot of ears when they finally get round to having some policies. If you don't respect my sex, you don't get my x

I do feel like the people who say "well at least the tories know what a woman is" are putting a bit too much faith in the tory stance - and I say that as a tory voter. I don't think they care any more than the other parties it just doesnt suit them to focus on it right now. Most normal people going about their lives don't know or care about the trans debate enough for it to be anything more than a vote winner amongst fringe groups. By which I mean TRAs or GC, before soneone tries to claim I'm saying women are a fringe group.

The tories will stay in power until there is an electable opposition
Unfortunately there isn't , at the moment

Labour let a fucking footballer take Boris and co to task for not providing FSM over the school holidays. Says it all.

@FatCatThinCat

How do people keep voting in the tories?

The system is stacked in their favour. Last election 57.4% of the voters didn't vote for them and yet they got an 80 seat majority.

In 2005 64.8% of voters didn't vote Labour, and yet Labour still got a 66 seat majority.

Claims that FPTP only benefits the Conservatives are completely unfounded.

@user478932071

Because when you earn over a certain threshold you suddenly don’t want to help anyone else.

Pray tell, what is this threshold?

@Onehotmess

Why does everyone think it’s tories or labour! Open your eyes! They are not the only 2 parties!

Who else is there? I only see an assortment of loonies.

@MrsColon

I feel like the Ed/David Miliband vote was a sliding doors moment for Labour - had David won, we'd never have had a Tory government in the next GE.

Nope, he would have been rubbished by the media just as all Labour leaders are, unless they tell you otherwise.

So you'd now be say "If only Ed had won"

Labour need to start opposing the Govt, instead of supporting them (again) tonight, its beyond parody.

Because Labour are shit. Keir Stamer spends all his time in hiding presumably so nothing can come back to bite him on the arse, Angela whatever her name is the older version of the annoying test at university who used to bang on your door selling socialist worker. They have no policies so Lammy goes on question time saying it’s not his job to have policies, his job is to oppose the Government come what may.

Historically it’s been Corbyn who was the kid in the 6th form common room putting the world to rights with a level sociology Marxism but sadly no grasp of economics.

As shit as this government might seem most people can’t see a viable alternative

@Cheesewineandpickle

Labour let a fucking footballer take Boris and co to task for not providing FSM over the school holidays. Says it all.

Fuckin hell!

Labour had been opposing the Govt's measures on this for months before Rashford got involved but it was never reported.

The 'papers supported it, Johnson, ever the populist, changes tack.

Labour have also called for better sick pay, esp for those who need to self isolate but that doesn't get reported either.

Its very simple ; the alternative was Jeremy Corbyn

"Labour need to start opposing the Govt, instead of supporting them (again) tonight, its beyond parody."

Labour supported the government vote tonight in the interest of public health, rather than playing party politics.

Labour have also called for better sick pay, esp for those who need to self isolate but that doesn't get reported either

I'd like to know which company CEOs Starmer has contacted personally to take them to task over this. Or is he expecting the state to cough up? Lobbying works both ways, if companies expect a minister's ear when they want something, they should expect a call when they're doing something actively damaging to society.

If Harry and Meghan can grab newspaper headlines by naming and shaming people, then surely Labour can do the same.

I don't think voters always look at party manifestos or understand policy. Statements like "because Jeremy Corbyn" etc. Then vote for another personality or what they think their party of choice stands for.

Then cases like Arthur and Star happen, cue public hand wringing and "oh something must be done, we must think of the children", whilst planning on voting for a party that isn't just cutting social care funding, but butchering it. "I'm not paying more taxes etc"

The Tories posture and point the finger at Social Workers, privatise service provision and so the dance goes on.

When we realise that we do need to fund our services properly if we truly want to look after the vunerable maybe voting change will come.

Jeremy Corbyn

It’s amazing how the easily manipulated still peddle this garbage. If you believed Boris’ lies then how can you be sure all you read (in the right wing press) about Corbyn was true.
He isn’t in line for prime minister anymore yet he is doing what he always did, quietly helping wrapping presents for poor children, campaigning for the same issues, meeting with those in need…. Because that’s what he has always done.
You won, wrecked the country, handed the last bit of dignity and power left to the ruling classes. Big pay on the back.

@HarrietPierce

"Labour need to start opposing the Govt, instead of supporting them (again) tonight, its beyond parody."

Labour supported the government vote tonight in the interest of public health, rather than playing party politics.

Oh really? Labour aren't the Govt, its not their job to push through a tory policy. They had a chance to inflict a defeat on the Tories but chose not too, instead they have helped take the spotlight off BJ's troubles.

Parties supporting the Tories in the so called national interest never ends well, ask the LibDems.

The data from SA (across all age groups) does not support we are facing a public health issue

@GreenWhiteViolet

I voted for them last time as the least bad option, not because I liked them. The alternatives were worse. If there were another election tomorrow I'd probably spoil my ballot. None of them come close to deserving my vote.

('People who disagree with me politically are stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote' is a nastier elitist opinion than any I've heard from Tories, though.)

Given that the Tories are bringing in voter ID and marginalising those that don't support them your position isn't very coherent.

By going to a polling station. That's how they do it

And I do have to say to posters who talk about the NHS and underfunding. The underfunding of the NHS was becoming clear in the '50s, less than ten years after its foundation. There is even a Pathe news reel about it.

The Doctor's Pay

One could argue here with this kind of evidence that the NHS is a funding model that has never actually worked. Current figures come in at around £178.8bn, which is roughly £2614 per person in the country, and this is classed as underfunded. What would the figure be to properly fund? Double that? That's going to be tricky when we have a current budget deficit of £171.8bn.

At some point, we are going to need to come to a sensible arrangement about the funding of healthcare in the UK (and dentistry, which is a total scandal that no-one ever talks about, particularly paediatric dentistry).

My fear is that the NHS is such a hot potato politically that no-one is ever going to do this, and we will end up being plunged into a fully private system because the NHS just either collapses or the public lose faith in it en masse.

I do have to say, personally, that Labour worry me. They do not behave like you would expect once in power. Wilson didn't and neither did Blair.

It took George Osbourne just let that sink in a minute, yes, that George Osbourne to question why so many properties in London avoided council tax on the grounds of being corporate owned. That loophole exploded under Labour, who, one could have assumed, would have been the party to come down heavily on such situations, particularly considering the loss of revenue for Labour London Boroughs at the time.

I would say to anyone, regardless of who they vote for: do your homework. What you are often told about a party, what you are led to believe, is often just not the truth. Voting tribally is a disaster.

The only way we can get a government that actually represents what we want and what our values are is to understand ourselves what the situation is, ask pertinent questions, and demand good policies.

I personally vote for the party that I believe is the best choice at the time. Labour under Blair was a very different beast to Labour under Smith or Kinnock. The same goes for the Tories under Cameron compared to Boris or May. Good MPs lose seats; shit MPs gain seats.

And it all gets far more complicated at local level, which is where you really want to examine candidates because some of those local councillors will usually end up being your parliamentary candidates in the future.

Shit changes. Don't get caught out by it.