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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

How do people keep voting in the tories?

946 replies

chaosmaker · 14/12/2021 11:19

I'd love it if tory voters could say why they vote the way they do given that there's ample evidence for how utterly incompetent they are (11 years). Especially in the last election. With that not-fit-for-purpose idiot in charge - edited by MNHQ
I also keep writing to my MP saying that if they are going to pretend we have democracy then they need to scrap FPTP.

AIBU that we should allow people with no sense to vote or
AINBU am I right in that people should have to factor history and rare sense into their decision making?

OP posts:
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6
LittleRoundRobin · 14/12/2021 15:48

I can't stand the Tories, but I agree with others that the Tories have been voted in because firstly Jeremy Corbyn (Marxist/communist,) and now Keir Starmer - nice chap but knows shit-all about what life is like for the needy and poor and working classes. Both leaders have put old school Labour supporters off voting Labour.

I voted YABU though, because you can't say people should not be allowed to vote if they are going to vote Conservative. As a few posters have said, you are talking like a communist, and a far-left Marxist.

Chloemol · 14/12/2021 15:54

Because I know it pisses of the great majority of Mumsnet

edwinbear · 14/12/2021 15:56

A wealth tax on mine and DH's (very average, but London based) home and pensions plus a 20% increase on school fees would bankrupt us. I earn well, but not sitting on enough cash to fund a wealth tax. We'd have to sell our home to pay for it. I can't vote for that.

Medievalist · 14/12/2021 15:57

Keir Starmer - nice chap but knows shit-all about what life is like for the needy and poor and working classes

His mum was/is a nurse and his dad a tool maker. Not exactly middle class?

But not sure why you think it matters what class the leader of the Labour Party is from?

Classica · 14/12/2021 16:01

@Chloemol

Because I know it pisses of the great majority of Mumsnet
Yikes, that's tragic.

Imagine someone's main motivation when making such a decision is hoping it will annoy posters on some random website.

onlychildhamster · 14/12/2021 16:09

@edwinbear as a londoner hoping to send our future child to private school and who has a MIL who owns a north london terrace house while earning below minimum wage (guess who will have to pay a property tax for her!), i understand. But voting tory is still not in your interest, unless you have surplus funds to help your DC buy houses in your retirement. The people in my synagogueI know who sent their kids to harrow...their own kids would never be able to afford private school for their own children and will probably have difficulties affording the same kind of houses that their parents did. Which does not say very much for their education! But it wouldn't be much better or possibly worse if they went to state...

The tories work for the interest of the top 0.001%, which isn't you.

BelperLawnmower · 14/12/2021 16:19

@mnp321

One of the reasons I vote Conservative is that I wouldn't support higher taxation than we have currently. I also associate Labour with bureaucracy and a large state machine, rather than being particularly "business friendly" in terms of regulations etc.

That said, Boris is shambolic and an embarrassment to the party. I trust the 1922 committee will, at some point, ruthlessly dispatch him as with other PMs before him.

I also associate Labour with bureaucracy and a large state machine, rather than being particularly "business friendly" in terms of regulations etc.

Business-friendly? The Conservatives are the party of brexit!

Not to mention being led by Boris "fuck-business" Johnson.
BBC News - Boris Johnson challenged over Brexit business 'expletive'
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-44618154

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/12/2021 16:20

@mnp321

One of the reasons I vote Conservative is that I wouldn't support higher taxation than we have currently. I also associate Labour with bureaucracy and a large state machine, rather than being particularly "business friendly" in terms of regulations etc.

That said, Boris is shambolic and an embarrassment to the party. I trust the 1922 committee will, at some point, ruthlessly dispatch him as with other PMs before him.

OK, pop quiz - which is the government who recently increased taxes for all workers and their employers - the same party that said employers NO was a "tax on jobs". If you don't support higher taxes, voting Tory isn't going to work for you.
swissmodel · 14/12/2021 16:21

Labour is evil. Their way of life is predicated on entitlement and making others suffer (except for the victims du jour). I'd take incompetent over that anytime. And Labour is probably incompetent as well, but why risk it.

TheKeatingFive · 14/12/2021 16:24

I don't live in the U.K. any more. When I did live there, I didn't ever vote for the Tories.

But I couldn't bring myself to vote for Labour now. So while I'd probably vote for an independent or something, I see why people end up in Tory arms.

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/12/2021 16:24

Employers NI of course

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/12/2021 16:27

@swissmodel

Labour is evil. Their way of life is predicated on entitlement and making others suffer (except for the victims du jour). I'd take incompetent over that anytime. And Labour is probably incompetent as well, but why risk it.
Don't make me laugh - I haven't seen any more entitled government than the current on - giving jobs and millions to their mates, trying to change laws and rules if they are caught breaking them - you really cannot be serious.
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/12/2021 16:30

Business-friendly? The Conservatives are the party of brexit!
and the extension to IR35 which led to the departure of a whole load of lorry drivers and has exported a load (more) IT jobs overseas, and they have just put up employers NI (which they called Labours tax on jobs when Labour did it). Tory supporters can be really delusional.

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/12/2021 16:30

The Tories promised to repeal IR35 in 2001 but they decided not to bother once they were in office.

mnp321 · 14/12/2021 16:32

Yes, the Conservatives have increased taxes. But a vote for Labour is hardly a vote for lower personal taxation?

And, at the moment, those are the only two "viable" parties to vote for so I'll be voting Conservative until a more attractive option presents itself. With the hope that Sunak replaces Johnson sooner rather than later.

aspirational · 14/12/2021 16:33

@Jessie75

If you voted Conservative if you’re either a millionaire or an idiot check your wallet to see which one you are.
This is why labour lost my vote. Criticising and shutting down anyone who disagrees with them, about anything. Why would I vote for a party who calls me names? I've been voting for decades and there's never been a party that fully aligned with everything I want so I need to decide which is the least worst. Anyone who calls me an idiot, or a dinosaur, is off the list of contenders. So there are not many parties left on that list at the moment. There's lots of things I can't stand about the Tories but at least they respect my right to an opinion.
onanotherday · 14/12/2021 16:33

@Glentheredbeakbattleostrich

Why don't you have a go at the utter failure that is the labour party? They are not fit for purpose. What about those who chose not to vote? Those who spoil their ballot?
Unlike the Tories who have covered themselves in glory?
girlmom21 · 14/12/2021 16:34

@onanotherday but they're still in government, aren't they.

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/12/2021 16:35

@mnp321

Yes, the Conservatives have increased taxes. But a vote for Labour is hardly a vote for lower personal taxation?

And, at the moment, those are the only two "viable" parties to vote for so I'll be voting Conservative until a more attractive option presents itself. With the hope that Sunak replaces Johnson sooner rather than later.

One of the reasons I vote Conservative is that I wouldn't support higher taxation than we have currently But you did support exactly that by voting Tory. But a vote for Labour is hardly a vote for lower personal taxation? Neither is a Tory one as you have found out - so your position makes no logical sense.
Seashell1234 · 14/12/2021 16:38

@Newcomer68

Fundamentally, because they don't care about the consequences of their actions on the less fortunate members of society and they think all immigrants are evil, grasping, subhuman monsters. (I often wonder, under this lot, what would have happened to World War Two refugees seeking sanctuary from the Nazis. I can see the likes of Farage foaming at the mouth and whipping up hysteria and hatred even now.)

Because people have short memories. Eighteen years of Thatcherism it took last time, before they were kicked out (and then it was for a centre left Tory lite party - though I'd go back to those years in a heartbeat).

Because their parents always voted Tory - mother's excuse. Right up until the Poll Tax she was a devout Tory, which given our living circumstances and social position, made exactly zero sense.

Because they've been "brought up that way" (a reason given only this week by a Tory farmer in North Shropshire).

Because they're okay with sleaze, corruption, lying on an international scale, and making England (in particular) a laughing stock overseas. Plus they're just fine with what's left of the UK (or England, anyway - there's still hope for Ireland and Scotland and maybe even Wales) being sold off to American, Chinese and Russian capitalists. That includes the NHS being dismantled, education policies being dictated by Gove and his mates (I know he's not education secretary currently but he did a whole heap of damage when he was).

Then there's the whole regional unfairness of the Social Care bill and the right to protest gradually being eroded, and the Human Rights Act being dismantled. (Anyone who doesn't believe this is happening might like to read a few news sources that aren't the BBC, the Sun, the Express, the Telegraph, or the Daily Mail.) Terribly convenient, all these smokescreens about Peppa Pig and Downing Street Christmas Parties a year ago and the amazingly timed new Covid variant. (No, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. Yes, I believe the virus is real. But some of the timings are very, very convenient. Anyone but me wondering where that recent death that occured in someone with the new variant was? Just a county will do.)

Because some of them are filthy rich and will never suffer enough financial or material loss in this lifetime to make them understand what they've done. And those who aren't filthy rich are often on nice comfy final salary pensions and haven't had to face reality since the early 1990s or even before. Though with the cost of living increases heading our way next year who knows, maybe even they'll start realising they're not untouchable.

Because some parts of the country are suffering from Stockholm Syndrome on a mass scale. (So, Red Wall, how's that Levelling Up thing working out for you right now?!)

Because they're brainwashed by the mainstream media and critical thinking is not taught in our education system.

Because they lack the ability to think through the logical consequences of Tory/coalition policies. What we're living through now is a direct result of decisions taken in 2010-11. What we face in 2030 will be a direct result of decisions taken and legislation created now, and much of it doesn't look pretty, at least for England.

And sadly, because we don't have PR in the UK and we currently lack an effective opposition.

I don't think Labour is perfect, by any means. If I voted with my heart (and the fact that I still care, despite everything, about the future of this insane species I apparently belong to), I'd vote Green. But in the circumstances, I'll vote pragmatically for whoever has the best chance, locally, of getting the Tories out. (Despite living in a constituency where a Beach Donkey with a blue rosette would get elected by most of the population I live in hope that demographics and the laws of physics may change that at some point.)

Oh, yeah, and obviously Corbyn was the AntiChrist who would have destroyed the country.

Could be, or could just be that having thought the options through carefully, they think the Conservatives are just a better option for the country than Labour. Even with BoJo...
daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/12/2021 16:39

I don't know how old you are but this "low taxes" is probably the biggest lie of all. The Thatcher government was actually one of the worst for increasing tax.

Newcomer68 · 14/12/2021 16:43

@Seashell1234 So what would the Tories have to do for you NOT to vote for them? Or, conversely, what would some mythical perfect party have to do to get you to vote for them?

I still remain mystified as to how Tory supporters remain in denial about what is happening when it comes to eroding our freedoms, destroying our educational and health infrastructure, and reducing our standard of living, at least for most ordinary people. By the time most people wake up it will be much, much too late.

Still, Boris at Peppa Pig Land, eh. What a great dad.

onlychildhamster · 14/12/2021 16:53

@Bells3032 I understand the Jewish community not voting Labour due to Corbyn, I myself voted Lib Dem, but am fortunate to live in Finchley and GG where I could vote for Luciana Berger who is a strong Jewish candidate (sadly she did not gain her seat, which i felt quite disappointed with; it would have been such a middle finger to the corbynistas if she had won given that she was booted out of the labour party). I do not understand the Jewish community not voting for Starmer; his wife and children are Jewish. the UK is not america; our PM's stance on Israel has negligible impact on Israel. it would be different if it was America as they actually supply military technology and funds to Israel.

The Tories are not good for young Jewish families which surely should worry the Jewish community as these families are the future of UK Jewry. My MIL's neighbours are die hard tories and also very frum- like me and DH, they married straight out of university at 22 but unlike me and DH who spent 3 years at home and therefore could buy a flat near DH's mother and within the eruv so she can walk to us on shabbat, he moved straight out into rental with his new wife and had 2 little girls in quick succession (as many Frum Jews do). It would be an uphill task for him to buy near family even though both husband and wife work; both sets of parents are not rich. I fail to see how having a Tory government which does not prioritize the building of affordable housing in London benefits him; the reality of being Jewish is that you will live in gentrified urban areas (or compromise on being near jewish communal facilities) and housing will be expensive as a result. So voting for a party that is in the pocket of property developers would only exacerbate an existing problem. Secular people can sidestep the affordability issue by delaying kids or reducing the number of children, by moving further out, but frum Jews do not have many solutions in their bag other than have 'rich parents' or 'get a high paying job that also allows you to keep shabbat' which are kinda non-solutions imho.

swissmodel · 14/12/2021 16:54

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

I meant evil policies not people. I couldn't give a stuff whether the actual ministers or good people or hypocrites. In fact I'd be quite surprised if politicians were indeed morally upstanding.

Tory stands for (as far as policy goes) truth, personal responsibility, morality and freedom. Labour is the antithesis of those values.

daimbarsatemydogsbone · 14/12/2021 16:54

@Chloemol

Because I know it pisses of the great majority of Mumsnet
Grin
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