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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think that the vast majority of people would think that allowing rapists to self ID as women is completely batshit?

104 replies

Galvantula · 13/12/2021 11:33

The people all over Twitter jumping to defend the rights of men to force everyone to refer to then as a woman, after raping them with their actual penis... Just wtf?

But no, JK Rowling is a bigot for highlighting this nonsense.

She shared this article about the Scottish Police who want to #bekind to the poor rapists and also fuck up all the statistics. The tiny % of sexual offences carried out by women doesn't take much to skew.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6d5deff8-5acc-11ec-a18c-c6d6c5855d8c?shareToken=950f24c7503003e07e782cf76b53d56f

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1470092815506063365?t=4nIz6ltkdNO0Jp6PDGmKiw&s=19

OP posts:
CityMumma78 · 13/12/2021 20:42

Fucking lunacy!!!
I am 100% with JK Rowling. Yet again she is the voice for women and the voice of reason and yet again the crazies on twitter are losing their shit because she has the courage to speak up!!

Spottybluepyjamas · 13/12/2021 20:58

YANBU. It's batshit insane.

Teaandcakeordeath83 · 13/12/2021 21:36

YANBU at all. I saw this tweet and got blocked by a drag queen for responding to his bs. Quite proud of my first ever block but that's by the by really. It did get me wondering though if this would work the other way in terms of would the outcry be labelled transphobic.

For example vile Reynhard Sinaga- if he started to identify as a woman after raping all of those men (possibly hundreds, last I read the police were still pursuing charges and trying to find more victims ..) would his crimes then have been perpetrated by a woman? How would those men feel about that? What would the response be to those victims who would then presumably be expected to label their rapist as a woman. I can't see a single scenario where if that happened those men wouldn't be supported in saying that their attacker wasn't a woman.

DdraigGoch · 13/12/2021 22:09

@baffledbunny

YANBU. It's frigging outrageous that the scottish police can be taken in this way. Have they not thought it through at all before they made this statement?!

In my view I believe the whole trans rights debate has been hijacked by misogynists/the incel brigade who hate women overall, and see this as another way of attacking us, and they don't particularly care about genuine trans people or their rights either, because they are making them look bad to others (shouting people down etc, doxing etc), and therefore causing them to lose the sympathy of potential supporters (such as non-trans women). It's a win-win for them to get us all fighting each other, and distracted from those getting into power. I wouldn;t be surprised if some of them turned out to be members of the Scottish Police...

But how to explain the number of women who are "allies" and have jumped on the bandwagon?
sst1234 · 13/12/2021 23:01

If you tolerate this, then your daughters will be next.

Datun · 13/12/2021 23:39

Does it work the other way round? If a rape victim is a transman, are male rapists forced to say he/him? Or is this compelled speech only happening to women?

poshme · 13/12/2021 23:45

@PigletJohn

Men I have raised this with agree with you almost 100%. and are bemused that the question has arisen.

Some were under the impression that a TW would have had to have surgery and behavioural training before being considered a W.

It's always so nice to know that people (like @PigletJohn ) who I've always thought to give sensible and reasonable advice about practical things (plumbing/heating/DIY etc) are also sensible and reasonable about other things.
DottyHarmer · 14/12/2021 08:20

I was just discussing this with dh and he too is bemused. I think 99% of people are bemused! Being kind to people has somehow morphed with extreme rapidity into dropping every necessary boundary.

DrSbaitso · 14/12/2021 09:10

But how to explain the number of women who are "allies" and have jumped on the bandwagon?

They think it's a sign of their advanced social consciousness and how caring, inclusive and generally wonderful they are.

It's frightening to see how easily people will dismiss women's rights and needs if you just package it the right way.

DottyHarmer · 14/12/2021 09:15

I have a very "woke" niece. She is all "People have a right to live their best life" and That Is That. No Discussion. I Am Kind. You Are A Bigot. You Are Old.

DrSbaitso · 14/12/2021 09:33

@DottyHarmer

I have a very "woke" niece. She is all "People have a right to live their best life" and That Is That. No Discussion. I Am Kind. You Are A Bigot. You Are Old.
She will learn in time, round about the time of life when people start having children, that people actually are very good at working out who the women are, what the difference is and what they deserve, when it suits them.

Can she explain why womanhood is such a nebulous concept when an intact man wants in on it, and so clear cut when deciding which prison or sporting competition he should enter?

StationaryMagpie · 14/12/2021 09:38

@DisappearingGirl

YANBU, it's madness.

I very much support the rights of trans and gender-non-conforming people to get on with their lives without being harrassed. I love the idea of people being free to express themselves however they like. I would happily refer to an individual trans person by their preferred name and pronoun.

However, I am very much against the following:

  • letting any male who says "I'm a woman" into women's prisons and sports
  • drugs and surgery for teens who are exploring their identity
  • not being allowed to have a word for biologically female people

I hope this thread gets to stay in AIBU. I don't actually mind having a separate board for this discussion, but this is a current news issue that people should be made aware of.

i was going to come on here to say exactly this.

i wish there was some way to find a compromise without activists on either side finding fault with it.

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 14/12/2021 09:47

i wish there was some way to find a compromise without activists on either side finding fault with it.
Any compromise hurts vulnerable women. In prison, victims of abuse, sports.

I'm not willing to say that the 'price' to be paid is a rape victim not being allowed proper boundaries. You can't consent on their behalf.

Bortles · 14/12/2021 09:48

Yanbu

ErrolTheDragon · 14/12/2021 09:50

i wish there was some way to find a compromise without activists on either side finding fault with it.

There is already a compromise which most people found more or less ok - the current GRC with medical diagnosis approach. The compromise on language is terms like transwoman rather than some of the more accurate descriptions.

Women have already compromised.

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 14/12/2021 09:54

And a compromise would be third spaces, right to be not discrimated against in law, for example not sacked for believing that they have a gender identity (already enshrined in British law)

Most people support these reasonable measures. If stonewall took its enormous revenue and used it to create third spaces, exclusive trans mental health services then the support would be unanimous.

It's because the 'compromise' is seen to be that women must give up safe spaces and sports that the issue is forced. And of course, not even the people advocating for that can agree who gets to benefit. Fully transitioned with genital surgery? Only GRC? Self Id?

No males in any female only provision or sport protects all females. Anything else is not a compromise, it is theft.

AlfonsoTheUnrepentant · 14/12/2021 09:56

@WorriedMumsDontSleep

And a compromise would be third spaces, right to be not discrimated against in law, for example not sacked for believing that they have a gender identity (already enshrined in British law)

Most people support these reasonable measures. If stonewall took its enormous revenue and used it to create third spaces, exclusive trans mental health services then the support would be unanimous.

It's because the 'compromise' is seen to be that women must give up safe spaces and sports that the issue is forced. And of course, not even the people advocating for that can agree who gets to benefit. Fully transitioned with genital surgery? Only GRC? Self Id?

No males in any female only provision or sport protects all females. Anything else is not a compromise, it is theft.

And a compromise would be third spaces, right to be not discrimated against in law, for example not sacked for believing that they have a gender identity (already enshrined in British law)

Gender identity is not a protected characteristic. This idea needs to be slapped down wherever it raises its ugly head.

WorriedMumsDontSleep · 14/12/2021 10:18

No, but the right not to be discriminated against because of it is protected. We don't allow you to be sacked for your beliefs or sexual orientation, disability etc in the UK.

I'm sure someone can explain it better than I. The point is trans people are already well protected in the UK, as is everyone. This does not mean they are entitled to extra rights.

TheNamelessGirl · 14/12/2021 10:36

That article states:

"Police Scotland requires no evidence or certification as proof of biological sex or gender identity other than a person’s self-declaration, unless it is pertinent to any investigation with which they are linked.”

How could someone's sex not be relevant in a sexual assault or rape case? Confused

Shedmistress · 14/12/2021 10:36

@DottyHarmer

I have a very "woke" niece. She is all "People have a right to live their best life" and That Is That. No Discussion. I Am Kind. You Are A Bigot. You Are Old.
So your niece thinks that a violent rapist has a right to live their best life, raping in a female prison, than the rights of the women in prison to live their best life away from rapists?
PineappleCakes · 14/12/2021 10:47

In UK law, rape is defined as a crime committed with a penis (women can be convicted as an accomplice I believe), whether the rape is forced onto a woman or a man.

A woman could only be convicted of rape if you agree that a penis is a female organ. Say that to yourself out loud Hmm

Language has meaning, if we can't say it we can't identify it, fight for it or defend it. Changing the meaning of woman is an atrocity. How or why is Scottish police doing this? For whose benefit? Not for women's...

Could any of the 3% who voted YABU please explain their thinking?

DrSbaitso · 14/12/2021 10:50

Women can be convicted of assault by penetration.

Rape requires a penis.

Panacotta · 14/12/2021 10:55

@Shedmistress

Who - just WHO - looks at a rapist and says 'yup, lets lock them in with women'?

Who?

And how can we get these people off the board of whoever makes these decisions?

It is sick, utterly sick.

This!
IncompleteSenten · 14/12/2021 10:56

People need to read the actual facts and not base their opinions on sentences on twitter.

Instead of someone screaming terf and transphobe and kill em all because someone on twitter said that someone else had said something that was literal violence and hate and therefore the person who said this hate filled evil yet completely unquoted thing should be, erm, hated, beaten, raped, killed. All that sort of stuff cos you know, hate and violence are just so wrong and bad...

... Bloody read what was actually said and make their own minds up based on the actual facts. it's not difficult.

Alleycat1 · 14/12/2021 10:59

I have a friend who was born a man. He married and had three children. In his forties he realised he identified as a woman. He has had all the surgery, counselling and hormone treatment but admitted to me that he still finds women sexually desirable* and is married to a woman. This is why I think that "women with a penis" should not share safe spaces with women.