To think that the vast majority of people would think that allowing rapists to self ID as women is completely batshit?

[Galvantula]

The people all over Twitter jumping to defend the rights of men to force everyone to refer to then as a woman, after raping them with their actual penis... Just wtf?

But no, JK Rowling is a bigot for highlighting this nonsense.

She shared this article about the Scottish Police who want to #bekind to the poor rapists and also fuck up all the statistics. The tiny % of sexual offences carried out by women doesn't take much to skew.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/6d5deff8-5acc-11ec-a18c-c6d6c5855d8c?shareToken=950f24c7503003e07e782cf76b53d56f

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1470092815506063365?t=4nIz6ltkdNO0Jp6PDGmKiw&s=19

It’s an obscenity that a man can rape a women, then further his abusive violence against her by compelling his victim to call him ‘her’ or ‘she’ in court. And the judge will force her to do so.

He, or any other imprisoned man, can then continue his abuse by insisting that other women be locked into prison cells with him, without their consent, without their rights even being considered.

Those in authority, passing laws that strip us women of our rights, that endanger us by putting the feelings of men before our safety, our privacy, our hard-won rights in law, should be ashamed.

@ZuttZeVootEeeVo

I wish the (admittedly few) people who voted YABU, would have the balls to say why.

They won't because what could they say? This is totally indefensible! All anyone who supports it could do is fling insults and cast slurs at us, whilst employing sophistry and disingenuous arguments or regurgitating the propaganda they've been brainwashed with. From what I've read on MN so far, they wouldn't be able to hold the line for very long!

I think allowing any man to self ID as a woman is complete batshit.

People are at last waking up to this insanity. I hope it's not too late.

Yanbu. I can't believe people on twitter standing up for rapists over women's rights. It does really show what an echo chamber Twitter is though - vast majority of people in real life would think this is bonkers.

Rape specifically requires a penis under English & Welsh law. How is referring to the male accused as "she/her" not perjury?

YANBU.

I had a look at the comments on the Times articles - readership generally pretty sensible adults I'd guess. They overwhelmingly agree.

On Twitter - JKRs tweet has over 50k likes now.

The police quote from the Times article
Detective Superintendent Fil Capaldi said: “The sex/gender identification of individuals who come into contact with the police will be based on how they present or how they self-declare, which is consistent with the values of the organisation. Police Scotland requires no evidence or certification as proof of biological sex or gender identity other than a person’s self-declaration, unless it is pertinent to any investigation with which they are linked.”

Great. The 'values of the organisation' evidently include rank misogyny and lack of concern for the victims of crime. As to proof of biological sex.... uh, the context is rape , which in all parts of the U.K. entails penetration by a penis. How the hell does he think it's not 'pertinent'?

YANBU, it's madness.

I very much support the rights of trans and gender-non-conforming people to get on with their lives without being harrassed. I love the idea of people being free to express themselves however they like. I would happily refer to an individual trans person by their preferred name and pronoun.

However, I am very much against the following:

• letting any male who says "I'm a woman" into women's prisons and sports
• drugs and surgery for teens who are exploring their identity
• not being allowed to have a word for biologically female people

I hope this thread gets to stay in AIBU. I don't actually mind having a separate board for this discussion, but this is a current news issue that people should be made aware of.

I hope this thread gets to stay in AIBU. I don't actually mind having a separate board for this discussion, but this is a current news issue that people should be made aware of.

Yes, absolutely. And also there's only voting on AIBU, which is relevant to the question raised by the OP.

From the Times article, quote from Police Scotland:

"Police Scotland requires no evidence or certification as proof of biological sex or gender identity other than a person’s self-declaration, unless it is pertinent to any investigation with which they are linked .”

Surely their biological sex IS pertinent to the investigation of a rape!

I work with people who have a great deal of influence over vulnerable young people.

Without exception the "right" response involves inclusion, equality, the right to choose etc. These are educated, intelligent people and to present any other argument makes you a bigot.

It’s BS - at the very least they should be categorised as trans MTF to make a distinction. Women are not raping other women.

@DisappearingGirl same-same. It drives me
Mad that any discussion around gender/sex/trans etc seems
To descend into accusations of bigotry.

The hate against JK Rowling is only understandable if you think about why untalented non-famous men, who want to be women, would hate the first self-made female billionaire writer, the first person to lose billionaire status through charitable giving, the menopausal domestic violence victim who refuses to let men define what it is to be female, and who has held fast to her beliefs despite daily rape/death threats when it would have been sooooo easy to just grovel to the bullies like almost every other public figure has done...

I am so, so proud that there are women like JK Rowling in the world, and I hope that when teens parrot the misogynist propaganda against her, the parents of those teens bother to parent their kids properly and push back on this hate.

@Thirtytimesround

The hate against JK Rowling is only understandable if you think about why untalented non-famous men, who want to be women, would hate the first self-made female billionaire writer, the first person to lose billionaire status through charitable giving, the menopausal domestic violence victim who refuses to let men define what it is to be female, and who has held fast to her beliefs despite daily rape/death threats when it would have been sooooo easy to just grovel to the bullies like almost every other public figure has done...

I am so, so proud that there are women like JK Rowling in the world, and I hope that when teens parrot the misogynist propaganda against her, the parents of those teens bother to parent their kids properly and push back on this hate.

I could not agree more.

@Thirtytimesround

The hate against JK Rowling is only understandable if you think about why untalented non-famous men, who want to be women, would hate the first self-made female billionaire writer, the first person to lose billionaire status through charitable giving, the menopausal domestic violence victim who refuses to let men define what it is to be female, and who has held fast to her beliefs despite daily rape/death threats when it would have been sooooo easy to just grovel to the bullies like almost every other public figure has done...

I am so, so proud that there are women like JK Rowling in the world, and I hope that when teens parrot the misogynist propaganda against her, the parents of those teens bother to parent their kids properly and push back on this hate.

This is an excellent post.

I'd add that attempting to terrorise women with rape and death threats has been around forever and is certainly nothing new on the Internet. The only thing that's new is that this time, they're claiming they're women.

Most people are too scared to speak out, for fear of being hounded by the aggressive trans lobby. This is misogyny if the highest order and it’s being state sanctioned.

When will those in power wake up and see what they are doing?

@purpleboy

When will those in power wake up and see what they are doing?

Sturgeon knows fine but is all for it and says women's concerns aren't valid. Some fuckin feminist.

Come on, those who voted 'YABU' - tell us WHY.

I wonder if part of the reason things have gotten this far is because none of the people who have done this have gripped the public consciousness. But, can you imagine if Wayne Couzens suddenly identified as female? Do you think Twitter would be demanding that he was allowed into a female prison?

Who are the 3% who invariably vote YABU to these threads? Come on, have the courage of your convictions if that's what you think and say why!

@bibbidybobbidyboo

I wonder if part of the reason things have gotten this far is because none of the people who have done this have gripped the public consciousness. But, can you imagine if Wayne Couzens suddenly identified as female? Do you think Twitter would be demanding that he was allowed into a female prison?

Honestly? Yes. I do believe that people are so invested in this and have abandoned reason and their own perception of right and wrong to the degree that they would support that entirely.

But, can you imagine if Wayne Couzens suddenly identified as female? Do you think Twitter would be demanding that he was allowed into a female prison?

There was a thread on here a few years back about Ian Huntley, as a news report had stated that he was now identifying as a woman. And a fair few MNers were up in arms that people were calling him 'he' and not 'she'.

Ian Huntely. The man who raped and murdered school girls. The man whose crimes kicked off CRB/DBS checks.

Misgendering was what they were upset against.

Luckily it wasn't true. However Karen White...

YANBU and we all know it. Only a mischief maker could argue against this. It is indefensible.