Wanting to tell 44 weeks and breech friend she's risking her baby?

[scottishlass43]

My friend is 44 weeks pregnant with a footling breech. She's determined to have a natural birth at home with another friend of ours who's a midwife. She's been declining all intervention till now and has no cut off point - she wants to let the baby come naturally and doesn't want scans or any monitoring. She refuses to consider a c-section.

She's older (late thirties) and has been waiting for several years for this baby. I have no idea why she'd risk it now.

AIBU wanting to tell her what I think? Am I (and other worried friends) overreacting? Does anyone know of anyone who's done this, and how it went?

Massive massive risk. Can the midwives not step in using some kind of safeguarding ?

She can’t possibly be allowed a home birth in that situation?

I wasn't intending to get this thread sidetracked by the gender debate. Female people get pregnant! The mother is a person as well as a woman.

Oh this is awful, I'm afraid I'd have to say something and wave goodbye to the friendship if it meant possibly helping the baby. 😔

I actually hope this is made up because that is a much better (although slightly disturbing) scenario than it being real.

I really can't understand this mindset. It's so hard to know what to do as a friend. Can you word it as that you're worried about her rather than it sounded as if you're judging her decision?

Also, yes, enough with the "pregnant people". Men can't get pregnant.

@Rocket1982

I wasn't intending to get this thread sidetracked by the gender debate. Female people get pregnant! The mother is a person as well as a woman.

Anyone who tries to obfuscate the fact that female people get pregnant, and that there is a word for female people, is trying to sidetrack the thread with the gender debate.

@Namenic

If she has been offered all options and understands the risk-benefit and can competently make a decision, I think it is up to her. But I would have expected consultant obstetricians and lawyers to have been involved? - in order to make sure all the right steps have been taken (make sure she is competent to consent/make decision). Perhaps you can ask her if she has talked it over with people in clinic/hospital?

If she has the capacity for decision making, then it is absolutely her choice, regardless of how risky and ill-advised this course of action is. The clinicians will have made it abundantly clear to her what the risks are, and no doubt done all they can to persuade her to follow their advice, but in a competent individual lawyers would not become involved.

Freebirthing is ultimately individual choice - but in many cases it places midwives in a very difficult position where all monitoring is refused, and then the woman finds herself in an emergency situation when things don’t go to plan and midwives are required to attend a difficult and risky home birth, as the healthcare trust still owes a duty of care regardless of all the unheeded advice up to that point.

I agree with everyone else, if the dates are correct then OP’s friend is risking an extremely poor outcome but at this late stage I would be very surprised if anything would make her see sense, sadly.

My point was about the psychology of attention and how to shift it, not gender, I think I made a reasonable point that it could be a good strategy to get the mother to try to shift focus.

I was induced at exactly 42 weeks ( emcs) your friend must be exhausted at 44 wks. It's a big risk to her baby as still birth risks increase the longer the pregnancy goes over.

@Rocket1982

I wasn't intending to get this thread sidetracked by the gender debate. Female people get pregnant! The mother is a person as well as a woman.

The mother is a human as well as women but you wouldn't say "pregnant humans" would you? Just say pregnant women.

I don't think anyone can obfuscate the fact that it is female people who get pregnant as that is an evident truth (and I also specifically said I didn't intend to do that) but I am going to duck out of this thread now to avoid any further distraction.

Yourbm friend is very stubborn. Hopefully her actions doesn't have dire consequences.

Gosh, this is so upsetting. You must be so worried OP. I don't know whether I really would say anything, but I'd like to hope I would if it was a good friend.

I've got chills reading this. Incredibly selfish She is only thinking of her labour and not the outcome for her child.
I had the very beginnings of Preeclampsia at 40 weeks and my placenta was gritty and degraded
Not the mention the footling breech

@Rocket1982

I don't think anyone can obfuscate the fact that it is female people who get pregnant as that is an evident truth (and I also specifically said I didn't intend to do that) but I am going to duck out of this thread now to avoid any further distraction.

They can, if they have a problem with using the word we have for female people.

Yes, please do duck out, and consider why organisations for health issues affecting male people don't have an aversion to using the word "men".

Are you absolutely sure she's 44 weeks? No social or familial reason that she may wish to say she conceived earlier? "Fake it till you make it" can be a (very rare) thing!

If you have expressed concerns already think I'd leave her to it - mostly because nothing you say will be anything she hasn't heard a dozen times by now.

It's her body, her choice and that includes risking death or injury to her baby if she wants to. Whether your friendship can survive that is another matter.

I think your friend is taking a massive risk and isn putting herself before her baby. Unfortunately it's her choice. No matter how dangerous and idiotic it is.

I think a certain section of the 'women have been doing it for centuries, trust your body' brigade forget just how many women and children died in childbirth as a result of not having the interventions that we have now.

No fuck this. Stop pussy-footing around this negligent idiot. Ask her if she's prepared to have a dead or extremely disabled child due to her ignorance and selfishness.

Her priority should be her child not her personal dreams of the ideal birth.

Absolute fool and I would flat out tell her as such. Sod protecting her feelings, two lives are at stake here - if they die what will you tell yourself? Good thing I wasn't frank and didn't upset her.

Someone needs to give this woman a reality check quickly and graphically.

No, YANBU.
What does her partner (the father?) think?

Scary

Does she know you’re posting this here @scottishlass43? It’s very identifying.

@driftcompatible

No fuck this. Stop pussy-footing around this negligent idiot. Ask her if she's prepared to have a dead or extremely disabled child due to her ignorance and selfishness.

Her priority should be her child not her personal dreams of the ideal birth.

Absolute fool and I would flat out tell her as such. Sod protecting her feelings, two lives are at stake here - if they die what will you tell yourself? Good thing I wasn't frank and didn't upset her.

Someone needs to give this woman a reality check quickly and graphically.

Totally agree with this.

YANBU to want to say something, but I'm not sure what to say that likely hasn't already been said to her. The best I can think of is discussing any anxiety she has about hospitals and the birth if she's up for it.

When I was pregnant and resistant to medical advice, it was largely because I'd experienced violent medical abuse and my main support outside of my spouse was an online 'crunchy' group that sadly if anything encouraged that anxiety and distrust. Gaining support that would talk through my concerns with consideration of my anxiety in mind (pretty much the worst thing was someone going on about how homey labour wards are now and how all HCPs are the same, felt like a huge disregard of my concerns).

Her research on placentas is a bit concerning as it does sound like the groups I was in with very cherry picked data. I didn't know then how research on pregnant women worked (it tends to be weaker because it's largely unethical to do things like women go this over to see how the placenta functions). I had placental problems in 3 out of 4 pregnancies and some research on this shows 3rd stage issues may be more common as time goes on - even if it works well which is a big if, the coming away properly and timely would be a big concern for me.

if she’s not been scanned since 20 weeks how do they know for sure it’s a footling breech?

I was thinking similar - at 38 weeks with DD1 I had a couple midwives and the ultrasound technician thinking she was breech by how she felt on the outside (and I've seen the websites and books that are meant to help people discern this which may be what is being used here), but she wasn't, she was head down with 'just a very bony arse'.

I might be wrong but I think social services can intervene before a child is born if there is risk to life. I would risk the friendships for this because it doesn't sound like anyone is thinking of the baby.