Wanting to tell 44 weeks and breech friend she's risking her baby?

[scottishlass43]

My friend is 44 weeks pregnant with a footling breech. She's determined to have a natural birth at home with another friend of ours who's a midwife. She's been declining all intervention till now and has no cut off point - she wants to let the baby come naturally and doesn't want scans or any monitoring. She refuses to consider a c-section.

She's older (late thirties) and has been waiting for several years for this baby. I have no idea why she'd risk it now.

AIBU wanting to tell her what I think? Am I (and other worried friends) overreacting? Does anyone know of anyone who's done this, and how it went?

Glad mum and baby are well.

I had an induction with my first and wouldn't do it again. At my 40 week appt, my bump was measuring smaller than the previous check up. I had a scan the following day which showed that the fluid around DD had reduced below the acceptable limit. The consultant I saw after the scan was concerned about the health of the placenta and recommended an induction. I was aware that there was a risk of escalation but accepted it anyway. I found the whole experience unpleasant and stressful. DD went into distress within a few hours of having the pessary, her heart rate dropped and then rocketed even after they stopped the induction (after six hours) to see if I would continue to contract naturally (I didn't). When a different consultant finally said enough is enough, we need to get baby out with an EMCS, I cried in relief! I appreciate it probably was not policy but I wish I'd been offered an elective rather than induction. I was told I would be able to have a VBAC but if we ever decide to try for another, I'd rather just go for an elective than risk a repeat of induction and the related stress. Also remember being told by the first consultant that if I didn't take the induction my baby could die. She was then visibly uncomfortable when I understandably burst into tears and then I was berated by various midwives for my blood pressure rocketing.

@Jxtina86 how did they ‘berate’ you?

@OliviaBean but a vagina birth isn't the same as a natural birth either imo
A natural birth is a baby born when the mum had a baby without drugs or intervention. Not a mum on an epidural and a forceps delivered baby

I would have loved to have a natural birth. Didn't happen for me unfortunately haha

Crikey my son was 9lbs 4 a day before his due date - can't imagine the size he would be 4 weeks later.

Wonder how your friend feels about having a c section if she is very Pro "natural" birth

If I had to have an induction again I think I would go for a c section instead.

Me too

i was part of a home birth group on FB which was very useful; what surprised me was how many women wanted a home birth but decided on elective caesareans if labour hadn't started by 43 weeks. In fact it's the received wisdom in that group that inductions are horrible and you should go straight for an elective section.

This was absolutely my position. I’d agreed with my midwife that if I didn’t go into labour naturally and there was any concern for the baby I would have an ELCS. Outcomes for baby and me seemed much better based on my reading at the time.

[quote Glassofshloer]@Jxtina86 how did they ‘berate’ you?[/quote]
I was told off for letting myself get worked up by more than one midwife and to 'just calm down' as I wasn't doing myself any favours. Easier said than done when minutes earlier I was told my baby could die, it was my first pregnancy, I had no idea what to expect, I was scared and in shock at the escalation after a straightforward pregnancy up to that point. I fully appreciate that it wasn't ideal for my blood pressure to rise and it eventually did come down after I'd had time to digest the situation, but both the consultant and midwives I dealt with initially were very dismissive that I or anyone would be upset or shocked by the comment.

Thank god they are both ok. I do have to seriously question anyone that puts their own feelings and idealised picture of birth ahead of the health of their actual baby.

I’m very glad she’s ok and the baby is fine but I also agree she will now be insufferably smug with “see. Told you you can trust your body and it will be all ok”

i wonder if it scared her how wrong it was going glad theyre both ok though

Pleased they are fine and hope she doesn't get too down because she needed a section. Congratulations to them

@doadeer

Crikey my son was 9lbs 4 a day before his due date - can't imagine the size he would be 4 weeks later.

Wonder how your friend feels about having a c section if she is very Pro "natural" birth

Probably a lot less than that as the likelihood would be he would be wasted due to a failing placenta

That’s one of the main dangers of going this far overdue, the placenta just naturally becomes less efficient. Yes there will always be placentae that keep going a lot longer than 40ish weeks but history and research tell us that a significant number will start to degrade and become less functional which results in the baby not getting what it needs and wasting away.

Glad they are both safe and sound.

Hope the horrifying realisation of what she gambled is manageable when it comes.

Very glad they are both OK.

@RedRobyn2021

OP you are doing the right thing to keep your opinions to yourself, she doesn't need negativity from you

She is not risking her baby, what utter bs some of these comments are ridiculous. How have we survived as a human race??? Do you people realise due dates are meaningless, they are just guessing

So why do you think trusts recommend inducing women who go beyond 42 weeks, there's huge risks due to the calcification of the placenta so it could fail leaving the baby without oxygen. Due dates are meaningless by the sense that a full term pregnancy is considered between 37 and 42 weeks, not 44. And a vaginal footlong birth (the riskiest breech position) is massively risky on its own, never mind at home with just one midwife when you're 44 weeks (or potentially later) pregnant. You'd have to be an idiot not to see that there's a good chance the baby will die. There have been midwives on this thread pretty horrified at the risks this woman is prepared to take with her baby. The majority of midwives have never even attended a vaginal breech nowadays. And yes, the human race has survived but women and their babies frequently died in childbirth up until fairly recent times and for these exact reasons. 🙄

Just saw the update, it's wonderful that the baby is ok.

I think risks depend on safeguards in place. One of mine was born naturally at 44 weeks + 3. Midwives were experienced independent midwives. Backup was with a very good surgeon. I chose not to have an induction but did opt for daily monitoring after 43 weeks and would have elected to have a c-section if the placenta had started to fail.

I'm glad it turned out OK. But the risk she took was horrible -just my opinion. But I wouldn't want to risk any harm to the baby or myself to be honest.

So relieved. Was upset thinking about this all day.

Oh, that's a relief. Glad this has had a positive outcome. Thanks in part to obstetrics!

My daughter is a midwife. And just to say there are increasing numbers of women wanting births that are not advised. It's not that we want to support these women, but morally we would rather be close than to hear a mum or baby die.

This article references the mbrace studies on birth outcomes and dates. www.aims.org.uk/journal/item/induction-at-term

Thank you for the update and I am so glad there was a good outcome. I really hope she doesn't transfer her ideas to others and that if she has another child someone gets some sense into her

Just one of many journal articles about how placentas don't tend to have an off switch. You can't be wary of a growing and massive baby post dates and at the same time be worried about a placenta that's calcified and not working properly... if it's not working then the baby doesn't continue to get bigger.

fn.bmj.com/content/77/3/F171

I'll reiterate the OPs friends choices would not have been mine (certainly not with a footling breech and no monitoring...) but there isn't an element of madness/ selfishness/ neglect or any of the other insults thrown around by wanting to let your body go into labour by itself. There is a lot of coercive language used around maternal healthcare and understandably an element of an increased risk being unacceptable to some people, equally there are others who will take a different view of risk and plan their healthcare accordingly.

@Namechangetimes100

I completely agree with you *@Teaandcakeordeath83* and I’ve had an induction and whilst I didn’t feel traumatised after, I was routinely lied to about the most innocuous things and made to feel like I was ridiculous for even asking, and it was things like basic decency I was denied and it was out of ease of life for the staff. Lied and told the birth pool was broke even though on the earlier shift they’d said someone else was using it, not allowed skin to skin because she needed to be weighed then and there, no delayed cord clamping because i had an induction, OB who did an internal didn’t ask for consent and was so rough he had me in tears and when I asked him to be more gentle i was told to grow up. I can’t think of another field of medicine where the patient is so routinely disrespected. I was terrified at the thought of another induction as id gone past my due date and induction has been brought up since 37 weeks. Luckily baby was born at 41 weeks.

Fact is birth is overly medicalised, midwives and consultants do use coercive language (generally midwives are better) and there is a vast difference between a midwife on a MLU/ home birth midwife and a delivery suite midwife. The care in post natal wards is often atrocious and leaves women traumatised and women are so often not given the opportunity of informed consent options are routinely presented as if they have no choice and if they voice concern or question the decisions they are immediately shut down.

However in the case of this friend they’re taking things to the extreme in the other sense, it’s a shame but its an extreme (free birth woo) reaction I bet to the birth industry

Absolutely agree with this. I had a consultant tell me that my (non existent) diabetes would make labour dangerous. When I said I didn't have gestational diabetes she said "well we don't know that." OK then.

I felt so under attack that it was genuinely hard to stay level headed and make sensible decisions because it felt like I had to fight back and that they weren't to be trusted. I even got criticism for having researched the things they were telling me wrongly. Always with an eye roll and reference to "Dr Google" yeah i have a degree in biology pal, I'm not a child and I won't be doing as I'm told. I found that actually just agreeing to what the consultant wanted then going in and telling the midwife what we were doing instead worked well. "Yeah I'm here for an induction but I'm actually only having a sweep."

I can see how when you really believe, like I did, that birth is over medicalised and our bodies are meant to do this and when you're being lied and coerced by those medical practitioners you go into the total opposite, "stay away from me I don't trust you" mindset.

I'm glad mum and baby are both safe.