To not want to lie to DD just so that we don't offend other people's religious and cultural sentiments?

[AliveAndSleeping]

I (and the majority of people) don't believe in this. We know it's not true. I have told DD that I don't believe in it but it's a nice story based loosely on history and that some others do believe it. She can make Up her own mind.

However, now the country I live in has very strong feelings on this matter. I feel that because of peer pressure I need to tell DD either that it is true or ask her to keep quiet about it or her friends will feel bad. I'm worried that if she'll voice her disbelief in the existence of this entity both the other kids and their parents will be offended and possibly ostracise her for it. I'm not exaggerating. Even the Catholic diocese had to apologise today for the comments of one of its bishops who inadvertently told kids the truth.

I'm tempted to lie to her just so that she won't offend anyone. I really don't want to. I don't think I should have to.

What would you do? Would you pretend that Santa exists even though you know that's not true? I love Christmas. I love all the Christmas traditions. The lights, the decorations, advent calendars, Christmas cookies. Even Christmas carols.
Why do kids need to believe in a mythical figure to make christmas magical? Isn't the other stuff enough? If it was any other religious or cultural sentiment would I be expected to lie and go against my beliefs to enable other people to continue with their deceit?

Santa still comes to my house and my son is 12, its a joke that he humours me on at this point and a tradition that we both enjoy, it just adds to the fun and magic for us as a family.

@arethereanyleftatall

Seriously *@HardbackWriter* If your three year old presents you with a scribble, you'd say 'nice try' rather than 'that's marvellous'? That's unusual to say the least.

When my three year old scribbled I thought it was bloody marvellous and I told her so. Anything she does I think it's marvellous. I'm not lying if I love and praise something that she has created even if it isn't of the same calibre as van gogh. It doesn't require a lie.

It's totally different to having to lie about something you don't believe in.

@arethereanyleftatall

Seriously *@HardbackWriter* If your three year old presents you with a scribble, you'd say 'nice try' rather than 'that's marvellous'? That's unusual to say the least.

I say something like 'oh wow, did you do at that nursery? Let's put it on the fridge!' and I'd ask him about some detail of it. I really don't think that's so outlandish?

it's like the equivalent of the cool girls from Gone Girl isn't it? the cool Christmas parent who thinks no other parent has thought about Santa/Christmas/the Easter Bunny/ the tooth fairy or that their child is the only one who knows the truth.
Instead of being pfb, it's pfp - as though they're precious first parents.
But completely inept at it because they can't tell the truth or tell a fairystory without posting a three page thread on social media about it

@gogohm

Earlier this week Santa/Father Christmas drove past our house on a float. Seeing my neighbours young kids' faces made life feel great despite all the gloom and doom. Magical. You want to deprive children of that feeling of pure joy? My neighbours dd handed in hers and her younger brothers letters to Santa helpers (every child gets a handwritten reply and a chocolate coin!) she's not getting the pony she's asked for though because Santa can't bring live animals!!! (My dd kindly explained she was told the same thing which seemed to help)

That's exactly the same arguments that my religious relatives bring to convince me to believe in god. It will make you happy. It will bring you joy and peace. Yes, it might but that's not the point.

Anyway, the point of this thread is not whether it's sensible to pretend to your kids if Santa is real or not but whether it's sensible to expect other kids and other parents to have to try so hard to not at any cost say anything that might break that belief.

But it's not marvellous is it? It is, objectively, shit. But we lie to make people feel happier all the time. 'Yes, you look lovely in that dress' 'you played so well at football today' etc etc

@ShinyHappyPoster

it's like the equivalent of the cool girls from Gone Girl isn't it? the cool Christmas parent who thinks no other parent has thought about Santa/Christmas/the Easter Bunny/ the tooth fairy or that their child is the only one who knows the truth. Instead of being pfb, it's pfp - as though they're precious first parents. But completely inept at it because they can't tell the truth or tell a fairystory without posting a three page thread on social media about it

Sorry...too cool to watch gone girl

I think i must be a bad parent because i genuinely dont give a second thought about 'lying' to my kids! Just not on my moral radar at all!! Wouldnt and dont think about it at all!!! This has been an eye opener!

Anyway, the point of this thread is not whether it's sensible to pretend to your kids if Santa is real or not but whether it's sensible to expect other kids and other parents to have to try so hard to not at any cost say anything that might break that belief.

The only requirement is to not be a dick.
So don't do it out of spite, in an argument, on purpose, to show you're smarter/better somehow.

Slips happen and it's normal and natural, especially at school , for various reasons (different traditions/religions, different mentalities/principles, older children etc.)

A decent and reasonable parent will deal with it and move on , no matter how Santa mad they are.

This is a very interesting topic (I should be bored of it by now 😉).

My thoughts, for what they’re worth, is being an adult is hard work, we tend to lose the magic in life. For me, allowing my dc to have some magic before reality hits is something I’m personally happy to do. As Ia child, my parents did the same for me (mum mainly) and I absolutely loved it, it hasn’t ruined the trust I have with my parents (the fact that they “lied”), I’m grateful to them for doing it. I don’t know, what works for one family won’t work for another and providing no one is hurting anyone then live and let live. We don’t all believe in the same things, we’re not made that way, but if we can agree on respect, kindness and understanding of others we’ll satisfy all of us.

Of course Santa is real. He is as real as Christmas. You can't have one without the other

@Phoenix76 amen to that . Eminently sensible reasonable and measured. Love your approach.

@arethereanyleftatall

But it's not marvellous is it? It is, objectively, shit. But we lie to make people feel happier all the time. 'Yes, you look lovely in that dress' 'you played so well at football today' etc etc

It doesn't make DD happier. I have to lie to my daughter because it makes for some reason you happier.

I understand that you don't get why I don't want to lie to my kids unless I have to but that's not the point. The point is that I am expected to lie so that the lie that other parents have carefully built up isn't shattered at any cost. If it came to any other topic where would that be acceptable?

Would you tell your child that people are reincarnated just so that they might never say anything to the contrary if they meet a child that believes in reincarnation? Would you tell your child that they'll meet 72 virgins in paradise after death so that they don't hurt another child with their disbelief? Would you tell a child that they must cross themselves every once in a while to make another child who has that habit feel better? Would you tell a child that after they die they go to another planet in case they meet someone who believes that (might get a bit dicey with the conflicting beliefs on the afterlife..). Would you tell your child that they must not eat beef / pork because that might make another child want to eat beef / pork and their parents told them not to? Etc

If you (and the other lovely posters who think.similarly) are willing to do all these things I might agree that I'm selfish for telling DD what I think about a particular belief that I don't buy into. Would you tell your child that a stork brings little siblings if that is what their friend believes?

Or do you only care about the beliefs that you buy into?

I've told DD that some kids might feel bad and she should probably keep quiet about it so she doesn't hurt their feelings or ruin their Christmas and she found it surprising because Ive also told her (in another discussion) that it's always ok to speak the truth even if it's uncomfortable (when discussing another topic..).

That’s because you’re being inconsistent and confusing. I’m going to assume you’ve mentioned that she shouldn’t call overweight people fat to their face, right?

All people use discretion and politeness and Santa/FC is no different than not calling someone fat, unintelligent, or telling them they smell bad, or telling people their religious beliefs are wrong, or their friends clothes are worn and tatty, or their nose is big.

If you’ve had those conversations that most parents have with their their children, but SC/FC is where you draw the line then own your attitude about it because children are perfectly capable of understanding the truth (as they know it) and keeping the words to themselves.

Nooo!!!! 😱 Father Christmas isn't real??? 😢

Next you'll be telling me that there is no Tooth Fairy...and that would REALLY upset me 😢

@Phoenix76

This is a very interesting topic (I should be bored of it by now 😉).

My thoughts, for what they’re worth, is being an adult is hard work, we tend to lose the magic in life. For me, allowing my dc to have some magic before reality hits is something I’m personally happy to do. As Ia child, my parents did the same for me (mum mainly) and I absolutely loved it, it hasn’t ruined the trust I have with my parents (the fact that they “lied”), I’m grateful to them for doing it. I don’t know, what works for one family won’t work for another and providing no one is hurting anyone then live and let live. We don’t all believe in the same things, we’re not made that way, but if we can agree on respect, kindness and understanding of others we’ll satisfy all of us.

So for me my parents never told me that Santa is real (neither did the parents of.my friends if I remember correctly). We had trees, decorations, advent calendars, baked cookies, sang carols, made presents and cards, etc and we all.loved it and had a fantastic time. So for me Santa isn't magical. The other stuff is. That's all. I don't think I was deprived and I think it's pretty arrogant (ahd completely ignorant) to say that I was deprived because I didn't believe in santa.

(I know you didn't say that. I don't disagree with anything you've said actually. It's just like you said a different experience)

@mnahmnah there's a funnyish episode of ths podcast This American Life (if you can get past the extremely nasal presenter) featuring a family who were somewhat fucked up by their Dad's Santa creations every year. He'd dress up as a scary looking old dude and knock at the door saying he'd lost his reindeer/crashed his sleigh etc and needed help. It was all very gritty Santa rather than magical and he fiercely insisted it was real and not him dressed up, for decades.

@saltinesandcoffeecups

I've told DD that some kids might feel bad and she should probably keep quiet about it so she doesn't hurt their feelings or ruin their Christmas and she found it surprising because Ive also told her (in another discussion) that it's always ok to speak the truth even if it's uncomfortable (when discussing another topic..).

That’s because you’re being inconsistent and confusing. I’m going to assume you’ve mentioned that she shouldn’t call overweight people fat to their face, right?

All people use discretion and politeness and Santa/FC is no different than not calling someone fat, unintelligent, or telling them they smell bad, or telling people their religious beliefs are wrong, or their friends clothes are worn and tatty, or their nose is big.

If you’ve had those conversations that most parents have with their their children, but SC/FC is where you draw the line then own your attitude about it because children are perfectly capable of understanding the truth (as they know it) and keeping the words to themselves.

Yes true @ the first part.

Well, hopefully @ the last part.

Obviously for you of coarse 🤣 no parent preforms for attention .... mmmmm 😂you nèed to get out more !😅 in case you hadnt noticed your on a platform cavessing for opinions , all be it only the ones you want to here and that agree with you.
Now if thats not attention seeking I dont know what is 😂 again I say poor child .

@Mocara

Obviously for you of coarse 🤣 no parent preforms for attention .... mmmmm 😂you nèed to get out more !😅 in case you hadnt noticed your on a platform cavessing for opinions , all be it only the ones you want to here and that agree with you. Now if thats not attention seeking I dont know what is 😂 again I say poor child .

I am discussing something that troubles me. I don't care if you approve of what I do or don't. I would like to think that no parent parents in a particular way to impress others. Maybe you do. That's up to you.

@HardbackWriter but that's just it, ime nobody goes about demanding everyone has to pretend it's real, just that they treat the same as any other harmless belief you may not share. We don't tell dc other people's religion isn't real, just that we don't believe it.

I remember Muslim friends when I started school that didn't believe in father Xmas. I don't recall us all having a philosophical debate about who's beliefs were correct, because nobody's parents had got in on the act like it was a big issue, we believers were just horrified they wouldn't get presents if they didn't believe. But they explained they had eid instead and with our concerns relieved, that was the end of it. Similar scenario when dc were little. Now I can imagine it's little Tarquin spouting some pretentious mealy mouthed shite about commercialism and realism, as taught to him parrot style by his oh so original parents.

Santa Claus "troubles" you?!

You must have lived a sheltered life!

I don't think you are selfish at all OP but I think i fo think it is massively unusual to overthink general belief systems when we live in such a multi cultural society. Just don't worry about it so much! Seriously one in two of us will get cancer apparently now. The big FC is a minor worry. Saying this as an experienced parent of older kids. Dont sweat it. Happy Christmas and enjoy your magic your way xxx

Just don’t mention it if you don’t want to?

you seem to be confusing the meaning of ‘forced to believe’ literally no one is forcing you to believe.

They’re asking you not to ruin it for their kid.

If you want to equate it to religion - I wouldn’t want my child to go up to their religious friends and tell them their god isn’t real. That is impolite.

Anyway, Father Christmas IS real.

I've seen a documentary about it.

"Miracle on 34th Street" I think it was called.