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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To not want to lie to DD just so that we don't offend other people's religious and cultural sentiments?

380 replies

AliveAndSleeping · 11/12/2021 22:18

I (and the majority of people) don't believe in this. We know it's not true. I have told DD that I don't believe in it but it's a nice story based loosely on history and that some others do believe it. She can make Up her own mind.

However, now the country I live in has very strong feelings on this matter. I feel that because of peer pressure I need to tell DD either that it is true or ask her to keep quiet about it or her friends will feel bad. I'm worried that if she'll voice her disbelief in the existence of this entity both the other kids and their parents will be offended and possibly ostracise her for it. I'm not exaggerating. Even the Catholic diocese had to apologise today for the comments of one of its bishops who inadvertently told kids the truth.

I'm tempted to lie to her just so that she won't offend anyone. I really don't want to. I don't think I should have to.

What would you do? Would you pretend that Santa exists even though you know that's not true? I love Christmas. I love all the Christmas traditions. The lights, the decorations, advent calendars, Christmas cookies. Even Christmas carols.
Why do kids need to believe in a mythical figure to make christmas magical? Isn't the other stuff enough? If it was any other religious or cultural sentiment would I be expected to lie and go against my beliefs to enable other people to continue with their deceit?

OP posts:
Goldbar · 12/12/2021 01:03

I don't think many people here have said that you need to lie to your child for them. Some people have said that they think you're depriving your child of a magical experience and others have said that it would be considerate to teach your child to respect that others do believe and be sensitive to that, but that's different from saying that you should pretend Santa exists even if you'd prefer not to for other people's kids.

I really do think you're overthinking it. You tell your DC what you want and other people will do likewise. Kids don't always play ball. Many believe in Santa, unicorns, dragons, fairies and magic despite receiving no encouragement to do so from their parents. Kids who believe are unlikely to stop doing so just because your child tells them it's not true unless they were doubting anyway. So you do you, and leave everyone else to sort themselves out. If your child is the sort who enjoys noisily shoving their views in other children's faces because you've encouraged them to think that their "truth" and "honesty" deserves special recognition and congratulation, that may be a problem.

AliveAndSleeping · 12/12/2021 01:07

So basically this thread has confirmed my worst fears. There are parents who will get very nasty if you mess with their particular belief system.

What I didn't know was that there are parents who will get even nastier (aka your child has a deprived childhood because they don't believe in santa..
) if you don't buy into those beliefs yourself.

Hmm
OP posts:
AliveAndSleeping · 12/12/2021 01:08

@JHMJHM

I don't think you are selfish at all OP but I think i fo think it is massively unusual to overthink general belief systems when we live in such a multi cultural society. Just don't worry about it so much! Seriously one in two of us will get cancer apparently now. The big FC is a minor worry. Saying this as an experienced parent of older kids. Dont sweat it. Happy Christmas and enjoy your magic your way xxx
Haha very true @ cancer.

And on that happy note.. good night everyone!

OP posts:
HeadPain · 12/12/2021 01:11

Must be trolling

Silverswirl · 12/12/2021 01:13

@nancy75

I don’t think there are any adults who have issues with their parents because they were lied to about Father Christmas when they were young. Father Christmas gives children a huge amount of excitement & joy for a few limited years - I actually thing it’s a bit mean spirited to take that away
I know one and she’s related to me. Still feels furious to this day 65 years on that her parents lied. I’m not even joking. I wish I was!
ABCeasyasdohrayme · 12/12/2021 01:18

But completely inept at it because they can't tell the truth or tell a fairystory without posting a three page thread on social media about it

Ain't that the truth.

"Look at me, refusing to lie to my child, ever, I must let everyone know how superior my parenting is"

Meantime loads of us have simultaneously managed to do the santa thing, and raise adult children who weren't devastated, and also somehow trust us despite our horrific lies about santa 🤣🤣

JHMJHM · 12/12/2021 01:19

@AliveAndSleeping night alive! You would have a full sweat on at my gaff i have glow in the dark virgin marys and rosaries all over the show never mind old nick. Happy christmas its been interesting xxx

Totallydefeated · 12/12/2021 01:34

This is all over over-intense and dramatically earnest, OP. You’re way overthinking something that is basically a really fun, magical thing that children enjoy for a very fleeting, tiny proportion of their lives.

If it means so very much to you that your child should have their nose pressed up against basic reality at all times, then of course approach Father Christmas in the way that suits you.

If it really is your ‘worst fear’ that other parents will be annoyed if your child spoils things for theirs, then I suggest you instill in your DC a basic level of courtesy about respecting other people’s opinions and not seeking to burst other people’s bubbles. I think there’s something a little bit unpleasant when children delight in telling others that Santa isn’t real in a smug and superior way that is designed to make the other child feel foolish and small for believing. I’m sure that your concern for virtue means you will bring your own child up to be more sensitive and considerate towards others and behave better than this.

CheekyHobson · 12/12/2021 01:36

@saltinesandcoffeecups hit the nail on the head.

There are times when kindness is more important than honesty. That is what your daughter needs to understand clearly now.

Telling children the 'truth' about how the world operates in a limited, age-appropriate way is a normal part of parenting. Some things (usually bad things) we don't tell children about fully until they are old enough to be able to understand and 'handle' the truth. Like that Mummy and Daddy got divorced because Daddy was cheating on her, or what date rape is.

The Santa tradition is actually a part of this learning process. Children enjoy a fun and 'magical' story when they are young, but as they grow older, they discover that some things are not actually 'all that they first seem'.

Usually as they get older, and understand how the world works better, the 'gaps' in the Santa story become obvious to them and they start to question the established narrative. In this case, the revelation that Santa is not real and that their parents were buying them presents all along is not a terribly troubling revelation. But it does give them the experience of learn to compare a narrative with their own understanding, and discover how to figure things out for themselves, which is an important skill to learn.

If you don't think your daughter is capable of keeping a "secret" about a widespread tradition in the society you live in, perhaps you have burdened a small child with a responsibility that is too big for her – she's not old enough to 'handle' this truth.

However if she is capable of refraining from telling her friends that they are fat or smelly or their dress is ugly you can probably relax about whether or not she's going to be able to keep the secret from her friends. Just be clear that it's something she needs to keep to herself.

CheekyHobson · 12/12/2021 01:38

*learning to compare

AliveAndSleeping · 12/12/2021 01:44

[quote CheekyHobson]@saltinesandcoffeecups hit the nail on the head.

There are times when kindness is more important than honesty. That is what your daughter needs to understand clearly now.

Telling children the 'truth' about how the world operates in a limited, age-appropriate way is a normal part of parenting. Some things (usually bad things) we don't tell children about fully until they are old enough to be able to understand and 'handle' the truth. Like that Mummy and Daddy got divorced because Daddy was cheating on her, or what date rape is.

The Santa tradition is actually a part of this learning process. Children enjoy a fun and 'magical' story when they are young, but as they grow older, they discover that some things are not actually 'all that they first seem'.

Usually as they get older, and understand how the world works better, the 'gaps' in the Santa story become obvious to them and they start to question the established narrative. In this case, the revelation that Santa is not real and that their parents were buying them presents all along is not a terribly troubling revelation. But it does give them the experience of learn to compare a narrative with their own understanding, and discover how to figure things out for themselves, which is an important skill to learn.

If you don't think your daughter is capable of keeping a "secret" about a widespread tradition in the society you live in, perhaps you have burdened a small child with a responsibility that is too big for her – she's not old enough to 'handle' this truth.

However if she is capable of refraining from telling her friends that they are fat or smelly or their dress is ugly you can probably relax about whether or not she's going to be able to keep the secret from her friends. Just be clear that it's something she needs to keep to herself.[/quote]
That's a very interesting take on it and something to think about.. thanks for contributing.

OP posts:
JHMJHM · 12/12/2021 01:45

@CheekyHobson what i wanted to say but better.

Glitterblue · 12/12/2021 01:47

Oh seriously?

MurielSpriggs · 12/12/2021 01:51

It's not even a very nice story! I agree with you @AliveAndSleeping, YANBU.

oakleaffy · 12/12/2021 01:56

What about the kids who will get nothing this Christmas.. ? Do they still believe in Father Christmas?
Will they somehow think they aren't 'Good' , so won't get presents?

Very few kids really believe a fat man in red comes down yer chimney... Especially when you see how tiny most flues are!

IndigoHexagon · 12/12/2021 02:02

Why do we lie to our kids about Santa?
Because the real world is bloody hard. If for a short while they can believe in something so inherently selfless, what harm can come? I would rather my kids for a short time believe I’m something magical than to worry about so called long term damage of the deception. How many generations have grown up believing in this modern Father Christmas without any harm coming to us? We need to believe in the possibility of magic, else what else can get us through the darker days of adulthood?

mathanxiety · 12/12/2021 02:04

Overlooked yes but you aren't expected to actually lie to your kids that it's the truth so they don't upset other children (and their parents)

Lack of civility dressed up as something noble.

Should your children tell others all of their opinions on their personalities and other attributes, in the interest of Truth?
The kid who is a little plump, the one who smells funny, the kid who can't read very well, the one whose mother is widely reputed to be a slut...

user1481840227 · 12/12/2021 02:07

@Just10moreminutesplease

You teach her to respect other people’s beliefs like you would with anything else.

I don’t understand all the handwringing with this.

All you have to do is teach her that some children believe in Santa and others don’t. But that this doesn’t matter as long as we are all kind to each other.

That works absolutely fine in some scenarios..

but then there will be others where the non believer might be questioned by the believers about what Santa is bringing them and then they are in a situation where they have to say they don't believe in him....unless they're going to make something up....and even then some mothers would be complaining that the child said he wasn't real or that they sowed the seed of doubt about believing in their own childs mind!

The believer might say well you must be naughty then and that's why Santa doesn't go to your house! That could upset the other child!

There always seems to be an assumption that it's the child who knows the truth who is going around telling all of the other kids just to be mean, but I bet in many of those situations the child was keeping quiet about not believing and wasn't actually trying to ruin anything, they just got asked questions and answered them honestly!

mathanxiety · 12/12/2021 02:19

We need to believe in the possibility of magic, else what else can get us through the darker days of adulthood?

Yes indeed, @IndigoHexagon.

Santa Claus is a way of teaching kids that the Universe can be a good place, a place of abundance.

worriedatthemoment · 12/12/2021 02:26

Don't lie to her then simple
Just don't let her deliberately spoil other peoples magic

The truth isn't always so great

CheekyHobson · 12/12/2021 02:28

There always seems to be an assumption that it's the child who knows the truth who is going around telling all of the other kids just to be mean, but I bet in many of those situations the child was keeping quiet about not believing and wasn't actually trying to ruin anything, they just got asked questions and answered them honestly!

This is what I was getting at upthread with saying the kids aren't able to 'handle the truth'. They just say what they know to be true without thinking about the effect on others, or even if they know they should be hiding reality, they don't have the sophisticated thinking skills to dance around the questions, quickly come up with a 'non-answer', etc.

Actually figuring this sort of thing out in 'real time' is a learning experience for kids. When I was young, I started to 'figure out' that Santa might not be real when I was 6 or 7, about the same age as most kids, and start to ask my parents questions. When I asked "How can Santa get around the whole world in one night?" they would say things like, "Hmmm, I just don't know! How do you think he does it?" and other little 'clues' for me to go and figure it out a bit more.

Over time, I would see a twinkle in their eye when they answered me. They knew I had figured it out, but they were 'playing along' because I had a younger brother who still whole-heartedly believed (it's no coincidence that Santa always has a twinkle in his eye, because he is also in on the joke).

So I learned to 'play along' until my brother figured it out as well. And eventually he figured it out too, but because we both thought the presents would stop if we stopped believing, we all 'played along', despite the fact that now we all knew we were all in on the joke!

That's the bonding and the fun of Christmas. It's not a devastating revelation when you figure out the truth, because figuring it out is all part of the fun. This, I think, is what the OP doesn't get, because that's not part of the tradition where she comes from.

worriedatthemoment · 12/12/2021 02:28

@user1481840227 so its ok for the misbeliever to upset the believer but not the other way round
Most kids don't actually think this deeply its their parents and adults that do as in the original op

Hadjab · 12/12/2021 02:43

@SleepingStandingUp

What country do you live in where you'll be ostracised for not believing in FC?

Just tell her people have different beliefs but we don't judge people by them and we don't challenge them, we just accept that that's their truth. It's kind to let other children believe but she doesn't have to lie about her beliefs either.

@SleepingStandingUp Lapland, obviously🙄
ShinyHappyPoster · 12/12/2021 02:44

I'm also too cool to watch Gone Girl ... but I did read the book.

Explosivefarts · 12/12/2021 03:17

Santa is real. I’ve met him .

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