To not want to lie to DD just so that we don't offend other people's religious and cultural sentiments?

[AliveAndSleeping]

I (and the majority of people) don't believe in this. We know it's not true. I have told DD that I don't believe in it but it's a nice story based loosely on history and that some others do believe it. She can make Up her own mind.

However, now the country I live in has very strong feelings on this matter. I feel that because of peer pressure I need to tell DD either that it is true or ask her to keep quiet about it or her friends will feel bad. I'm worried that if she'll voice her disbelief in the existence of this entity both the other kids and their parents will be offended and possibly ostracise her for it. I'm not exaggerating. Even the Catholic diocese had to apologise today for the comments of one of its bishops who inadvertently told kids the truth.

I'm tempted to lie to her just so that she won't offend anyone. I really don't want to. I don't think I should have to.

What would you do? Would you pretend that Santa exists even though you know that's not true? I love Christmas. I love all the Christmas traditions. The lights, the decorations, advent calendars, Christmas cookies. Even Christmas carols.
Why do kids need to believe in a mythical figure to make christmas magical? Isn't the other stuff enough? If it was any other religious or cultural sentiment would I be expected to lie and go against my beliefs to enable other people to continue with their deceit?

Only appreciation for the magic while it lasted and I feel sorry for the kids that are deprived of this because of over-thinking parents

This says it all. It's a bit of magic for kids in a world which could do with some magic, and it certainly doesn't cause any harm. I don't understand all the angst about it to be honest.

I resent having to tell her that it's better if she doesn't talk about it or tells other kids what she believes.

You resent teaching your child that sometimes you need to keep your trap shut as a kindness to other children? Really?

I really don't understand this. It's a bit try hard 'aren't we radical and alternative' bollocks. We're not religious, and it was never a dilemma when dc came across believers of any denomination. It didn't occur to me, or anyone else I've ever met that the choice was pretending to believe in a religion we don't, or telling dc other people were lying and wrong. Like most parents, we just said they believe that, we believe in this instead, either is fine. Much like most religious parents do when it comes to other faiths. Dc naturally stopped believing in father Xmas when they got older, it wasn't a formal ceremony where we revealed the conspiracy.

There's as much scientific reason to believe in father Xmas as there is in God, so I'm amused that a bishop, someone with their life and career wholly formed around believing in the latter is in a position to scrutinise belief in the former.

If it was just so easy. Early in October her friend thought it's Halloween. DD said it's the last day of October. Friend got angry and cried bitterly and didn't want to be friends anymore. DD felt terrible.

They’re 5! Calendars and dates are not an embedded concept at 5. They cry over all sorts.

Are they friends again now?

If not - oh well. Your DC is a bit more mature than the other DC. Will probably change again next week/month/term/year.

If yes - not a problem really?

Like I said. I think Christmas is pretty joyful, anyway with all the fun activities you can do. Why do you need to make up stuff (and more importantly why do I need to make up stuff? I'm not really bothered If others do it)

OP do you jot see the hypocrisy in what you've written?

Christmas time only exists because of shared beliefs - whether they're Pagan or Christian. Your 'magical' time wouldn't exist without the beliefs. You don't have to share them, but to fail to accept their fundamental role in the celebration is illogical.

If you don't want to 'do Santa' then don't! But to suggest that other people's shared joy in the process spoils your enjoyment of Christmas is self indulgent bollocks.

@Cma1988

We never really did “Santa/Father Christmas as real”

We thought of him as a game and some fun (we had stockings and left out carrot mince pie etc) but it was always clear to us that it was pretend.

We had a fantastic and wonderful Christmas and childhood thank you

I do the same with my kids

This is how I was raised and what I'm trying to aim at with my own. I don't feel that I missed out on anything and tbh when I see people say that it's the best thing about childhood/utterly essential etc it just makes me feel a bit sad - I think that the great think about being a young child is that anything can be magic.

Since Father Christmas only goes to the homes of people who believe in him, I really can't see the problem.
Your kids don't believe and he won't call there. Mine do and he pops in every year.

I just don't like lying about something I don't believe in.
You don’t have to!

I wouldn’t get too worked up about it. As with all beliefs, it’s really up to each family to decide for themselves, and as with any belief, it’s also inappropriate to go around telling people their beliefs are wrong. A lot of people believe in things you can’t see or prove.

That said, all cultures have stories based in mythology, ancient history and tradition that form important holidays or celebrations. Father Christmas and Saint Nicholas were real people, whose traditions endure. Children will grow out of the literal and into the spirit of tradition as they grow, and many parents feel Santa is an important way of rooting them in these traditions. And many do not. Both are equally valid approaches.

But you're depriving your children of a magical short time in their young lives. But if that what makes you happy, crack on.

This idea that children who aren’t sold the Santa lie are deprived is extremely arrogant. You’re selling them a Santa created by Coca Cola and passing it off as magic. Many children have their own traditions, they don’t need the lie.

@Aposterhasnoname

I feel so, so sorry for the posters that pop up with this every year. Obviously they missed out on the magic of believing as a child, and as a result genuinely don’t know what their child will miss out on.

I’m in my 50s, and I can still remember the excitement of lying in bed with my sister, listening to my dad in the loft Santa on the roof. It was the best feeling ever. Took my DGS to see Santa today, his little face with the wonder of it all. How could you deny a kid that joy.

I remember all that too, but I never believed in Santa. It was still magical and fun and exciting and an amazing memory for me.

A bit sad nobody seems open to at least empathising with the viewpoint I tried to explain upthread. It does make it hard for some parents.

I'm not saying everyone should do one thing or the other, but I think the people saying it's awful kids don't experience the magic of Santa don't take into account the kids who experience feeling they must not have been 'good' enough as their friends get lots from him and they don't. In those cases I think it's very understandable parents explain that some people believe in Santa but he isn't real, but it's best not to tell people you know he's not. And reasonable to expect parents not to be livid if that kid slips up and other kids find out the truth.

I don't lie about some god to my kids. They manage not to cause offence. I guess the point of faith is believing something impossible or unlikely despite what "heathens" might tell you.

The thing is, you aren't expected to believe. You are expected to allow a child's imagination to consider magic and generosity. If you don't want your child to participate, fine, but please don't spoil it for my child. A child who is taught not to believe in Santa should still be taught to be kind to those who do believe.

Also, no child is taught to believe in Santa until adulthood. This is a harmless bit of childhood fun. Something that kids could certainly use in a world full of COVID, climate change, and terrorism.

It’s nothing to do with religion? It’s a mythological character. Like the Easter bunny.

@Jenhen89

It’s nothing to do with religion? It’s a mythological character. Like the Easter bunny.

He's based on Saint Nicholas.

Who in some countries is a completely separate entity to Santa actually, so kids get a little treat before Christmas too.Or a stick if they've been naughty.

@Jenhen89

It’s nothing to do with religion? It’s a mythological character. Like the Easter bunny.

I meant mythical!

@JHMJHM

That's fine OP and you have explained it well. Your visceral revulsion towards 'lying' is unusual. But takes all sorts and it sounds like you all have a fab christmas anyway santa or not.

Thank you!!

Is my reaction to lying visceral? It's the randomness of it and what feels to me an unnecessary lie.

I grew up in another north European country..Christmas is a huge deal there and is celebrated in a very grand manner. However, I don't remember me or any of my friends believing that Santa is real or any adults pretending that Santa is real or anyone requiring the myth of Santa to be real to make Christmas special or magical.

In the same vein I discussed it with DD when she asked about it randomly. I realised only later what a huge deal it is in the UK and that kids actually believe in santa and might get upset if another child randomly mentions that Santa doesn't exist.

I've told DD that some kids might feel bad and she should probably keep quiet about it so she doesn't hurt their feelings or ruin their Christmas and she found it surprising because Ive also told her (in another discussion) that it's always ok to speak the truth even if it's uncomfortable (when discussing another topic..).

Even if she did ‘tell everyone the truth’ they might not believe her.

There is still a fair amount of cultural sensitivity in this country so if your child told her friends she doesn’t celebrate Christmas for cultural or religious reasons most would probably just accept that without having to drag Father Christmas into it at all.

@Jenhen89

It’s nothing to do with religion? It’s a mythological character. Like the Easter bunny.

‘Belief’ is something intangible.

You believe in magic (Father Christmas, fairies, Easter Bunny, Harry Potter-esque abilities, Marvel superheroes) without physical proof.

‘Faith’ - religious belief - shares the lack of physical proof.

It’s analogous.

@3scape

I don't lie about some god to my kids. They manage not to cause offence. I guess the point of faith is believing something impossible or unlikely despite what "heathens" might tell you.

Haha good point!!

@youvegottenminuteslynn

A bit sad nobody seems open to at least empathising with the viewpoint I tried to explain upthread. It does make it hard for some parents.

I'm not saying everyone should do one thing or the other, but I think the people saying it's awful kids don't experience the magic of Santa don't take into account the kids who experience feeling they must not have been 'good' enough as their friends get lots from him and they don't. In those cases I think it's very understandable parents explain that some people believe in Santa but he isn't real, but it's best not to tell people you know he's not. And reasonable to expect parents not to be livid if that kid slips up and other kids find out the truth.

It can be even worse tbh. Imagine all the kids being abused, being severely ill, in foster care, witnessing DV, being homeless etc. They might wish for presents, most wish for things to be better. Their wish never comes true, but that's ok because it's all magical and fun because they believe in Santa.

It's a story that's a mainstream part of our society. I've never made a big deal out of it. We'll usually go to a grotto at some point, the DCs request a present (not usually the most expensive). Most comes from us.
DS1's a critical child and I tend to answer with "what do you think?" We have fun playing along with each other even though he stopped beliving a few years ago. We'll also have fun tracking Norad and the "science" of Santa (speed, heat resistance, elastic properties to get through the log burner... )

Children learn more from having to think things through for themselves than being presented with "facts".

We take the same approach with religion. We went to church until March 2020. DS1 has decided he's an atheist and that's fine. We talk about his beliefs, my beliefs, religious teachings including other religions. But we don't impose beliefs on eachother. He's come out of it with a foundation of how the church is so weddings/ funerals/ baptisms are familiar, but there's no right/ wrong belief.

@drpet49

* Father Christmas is a nice story and a fun bit of make belief but the fervent way in which people insist that children MUST believe for as long as possible is very weird to me.*

^I agree

I agree too. It's strange. Once they come to you and tell you that they don't believe it anymore, it's time to fess up.

I bet a lot of children humour their parents with this. I know I did.

Might as well kill the tooth fairy too.