To not want to lie to DD just so that we don't offend other people's religious and cultural sentiments?

[AliveAndSleeping]

I (and the majority of people) don't believe in this. We know it's not true. I have told DD that I don't believe in it but it's a nice story based loosely on history and that some others do believe it. She can make Up her own mind.

However, now the country I live in has very strong feelings on this matter. I feel that because of peer pressure I need to tell DD either that it is true or ask her to keep quiet about it or her friends will feel bad. I'm worried that if she'll voice her disbelief in the existence of this entity both the other kids and their parents will be offended and possibly ostracise her for it. I'm not exaggerating. Even the Catholic diocese had to apologise today for the comments of one of its bishops who inadvertently told kids the truth.

I'm tempted to lie to her just so that she won't offend anyone. I really don't want to. I don't think I should have to.

What would you do? Would you pretend that Santa exists even though you know that's not true? I love Christmas. I love all the Christmas traditions. The lights, the decorations, advent calendars, Christmas cookies. Even Christmas carols.
Why do kids need to believe in a mythical figure to make christmas magical? Isn't the other stuff enough? If it was any other religious or cultural sentiment would I be expected to lie and go against my beliefs to enable other people to continue with their deceit?

My children have been in school with children of all beliefs and it was never an issue. They believed until I told them it wasn’t true!! Do what you like, ask her to keep it quiet but sure others won’t believe too

I don't actually understand your OP. You've already told her it isn't true. I doubt you'd get anywhere by back tracking now.

Do what the hell you like, no one cares. But impress on her the need to not ruin it for the others.

There's a least one of these threads every year and it's always good for an eye roll. There are many different kinds of truth. In doing Santa, I'm teaching my child bigger truths about the kindness and generosity that exists in the world. You do what you want.

Tell your children what you like, but for goodness' sake stop with all the ridiculous hyperbole about what people are 'forced' to do! And maybe look up the word 'fundamentalist' .

Father Christmas is a fun fictional tradition which people choose to indulge in, and which the vast majority of children enjoy and then grow out of. Pretending is something children do and are used to. This kind of shared pretence is not damaging or deceitful, it's cultural and enjoyable, and has existed about mythical/folk characters and creatures in many cultures throughout history.

Nobody can force you to take part, so stop pretending they are. Just tell your dc there's no Father Christmas and stop being so bloody dramatic. There are gazillions of children across the UK who don't do the FC thing because they're from different cultures or because they have parents who feel the same way you do.

Well I wouldn’t expect my child to go up to a religious child and tell them their god isn’t real and it’s all made up. It’s not about lying, but respecting other people’s beliefs and being tactful. Perhaps this is a good start to you teaching your child how to behave like a considerate individual and respect others OP. That might get in the way of your superior self righteousness though.

Even the Catholic diocese had to apologise today for the comments of one of its bishops who inadvertently told kids the truth

This definitely depends on your definition of the truth.

I take it that the op will only be allowing their DC factual and biographical books then as fiction and fairytales are just "lies"

OP if I had the energy I could have written this myself, I’ve long realised Santa is the only religion you’re not allowed to say you don’t believe in.

My friends think I’m the Grinch, but somehow my kids still love Christmas. Why? Because they get to spend lots of time with people they love, they get too much chocolate & presents. It is a magical time without a man in a red suit.

I’ve no idea why parents invest so much in this lie, which has turned from a nice story into a massive industry.

But as shown, OP, we are in the minority with our belief that a “magical christmas” can be had without this nonsense.

This is a very Christmassy thread for the Daily Fail to swipe and make an article of.

Shall we take bets on how long it will take?

How tedious. Millions of people all over the world have believed in Father Christmas as children, it added to the excitement of Christmas and did absolutely no harm. You’ve decided to take that away from your child but no one else cares. And it really doesn’t matter what your child says to other children, why on earth do you think she’ll be
viewed as the fount of all knowledge?

For children the belief in Father Christmas/Santa is pure magic. I cannot comprehend why any loving parent would take that away!!!

I was the youngest of 3. Never believed in Santa but still went along with it and loved Christmas and I still do love Christmas. The magic of Christmas is about more than just Santa. Going along with the Santa stuff for my very young children but will never pretend he’s real if they ask.
(Yearly reminder that it has always been Santa in Scotland)

@CityMumma78

For children the belief in Father Christmas/Santa is pure magic. I cannot comprehend why any loving parent would take that away!!!

And what happens to that child when the belief is shattered?
I can't understand how any loving parent would lie consecutively for many years, only to tell them at the end it was all a big lie.

Oh wind your neck in, OP.

If religion is so ludicrous to you you’d be as good as your word and not celebrate Christmas at all.

And yes, if your child told mine Jesus and Father Christmas weren’t real I’d be bloody pissed off at you!

I don't actually understand your OP. You've already told her it isn't true. I doubt you'd get anywhere by back tracking now.

Well exactly. The OP makes out that she hasn’t told her the truth yet. The subsequent posts make it clear that she has but is worried about her daughter’s popularity as a result of her decision. Obviously she can’t now backtrack on ‘Santa isn’t real’ so that’s the reason for all the hyperbolic faux victimhood - ‘fundamentalism’, ‘ostracised’, etc 😂

You make your bed. You told your daughter the truth, presumably in the knowledge that most parents do go along with it. If it affects her friendships that’s a consequence of your decision. She won’t be ‘ostracised’ - she might be temporarily unpopular until after Christmas. I’m sure she will thank you in the future for your honesty.

And what happens to that child when the belief is shattered?

In my experience it didn’t get ‘shattered’. You just gradually grow out of it, on the same way as you grow out of believing fairies and monsters might be real.

(Unless it’s shattered by someone like the OP’s daughter of course).

Doesn't bother me either way what happens in other family homes.

If it came up I'd just say to my DC that's a shame they think that, must only be the parents who do Christmas in their house. Santa must not visit them.

Personally I love Santa bringing my DC gifts. I love their excitement leaving stuff out for him, and how much they love the bloody elf.

I think eldest has maybe rumbled it all, but she isn't saying it and is having a wonderful Christmas so far and has lit up the twice we've seen (very obvious) fake Santas in town this year.

I said how lovely and Christmassy it made me feel and she agreed. Santa is totally real - everyone who makes the effort to make Christmas magical is Santa.

I’ve long realised Santa is the only religion you’re not allowed to say you don’t believe in.

Oh fgs don't be silly. You can do what you want. All anyone is saying is that the OP should teach her child to be considerate to those who do.

@Theluggage15

How tedious. Millions of people all over the world have believed in Father Christmas as children, it added to the excitement of Christmas and did absolutely no harm. You’ve decided to take that away from your child but no one else cares. And it really doesn’t matter what your child says to other children, why on earth do you think she’ll be viewed as the fount of all knowledge?

Yup exactly.

I care a bit in that some people tell their kids he's not real, but in that I feel a little bit sad. Doesn't bother me on a personal level.

He's real for my DC. And DH and I take great pleasure in it. We don't buy them much over the year, and seem quite tight when it comes to which toys we let them have etc.

But Santa goes somewhat mad so they "know" its not us who will be bringing the bloody huge dolls house this year - as when asked if they could have it I questioned where it would fit etc and they decided it wouldn't.

I still don't have a clue where the bloody thing will fit but I can't wait to see their faces and the joy when it's magically arrived.

So if any doubt is cast in their minds by non believers then it's quickly undone as DH and I are far too sensible to allow some of the gifts Santa does.

(Also means I can't wait until they do figure it out that it was us. As they'll look back and realise that of course we always wanted them to have to impractical toys too. I only look back with magic on my parents as Santa and am very grateful.)

I’ve long realised Santa is the only religion you’re not allowed to say you don’t believe in.

Exactly. And over the years you so appreciate the love and effort that your parents put into the tradition.

The problem with it isn’t the people who tell their children Santa isn’t true or the ones who do it’s the YOUR child MUST NOT mention that they don’t believe in Santa or they will ruin every other child/parents life by this awful belief! Do Santa, don’t do Santa, accept some people do and some people don’t, do not tell parents of little children they must keep the truth of Santa a secret....impossible! If kids want to believe they will whatever a school mate says and if they don’t they are probably too old for the nonsense anyway, sorry...magic!😂

I haven't rtft, but are you now in ROI OP?

I am so confused - are you talking about Jesus or Santa 🤣

The incomparable Terry Pratchett on belief in magic:

All right," said Susan. "I'm not stupid. You're saying humans need... fantasies to make life bearable."

REALLY? AS IF IT WAS SOME KIND OF PINK PILL? NO. HUMANS NEED FANTASY TO BE HUMAN. TO BE THE PLACE WHERE THE FALLING ANGEL MEETS THE RISING APE.

"Tooth fairies? Hogfathers? Little—"

YES. AS PRACTICE. YOU HAVE TO START OUT LEARNING TO BELIEVE THE LITTLE LIES.

"So we can believe the big ones?"

YES. JUSTICE. MERCY. DUTY. THAT SORT OF THING.

"They're not the same at all!"

YOU THINK SO? THEN TAKE THE UNIVERSE AND GRIND IT DOWN TO THE FINEST POWDER AND SIEVE IT THROUGH THE FINEST SIEVE AND THEN SHOW ME ONE ATOM OF JUSTICE, ONE MOLECULE OF MERCY. AND YET—Death waved a hand. AND YET YOU ACT AS IF THERE IS SOME IDEAL ORDER IN THE WORLD, AS IF THERE IS SOME...SOME RIGHTNESS IN THE UNIVERSE BY WHICH IT MAY BE JUDGED.

"Yes, but people have got to believe that, or what's the point—"

MY POINT EXACTLY.

Don't worry OP, if your DD shares your attitude with her friends and they're young enough to still believe then most parents will just tell their kids that it's sad for their friend that Santa doesn't visit her but that it doesn't mean he won't visit them - no harm done. All the little things will add up eventually and they all stop believing but lots like to keep the magic going anyway as it's fun, it doesn't do you any harm and I think you misunderstand most people's attitude on the subject.