To not want to lie to DD just so that we don't offend other people's religious and cultural sentiments?

[AliveAndSleeping]

I (and the majority of people) don't believe in this. We know it's not true. I have told DD that I don't believe in it but it's a nice story based loosely on history and that some others do believe it. She can make Up her own mind.

However, now the country I live in has very strong feelings on this matter. I feel that because of peer pressure I need to tell DD either that it is true or ask her to keep quiet about it or her friends will feel bad. I'm worried that if she'll voice her disbelief in the existence of this entity both the other kids and their parents will be offended and possibly ostracise her for it. I'm not exaggerating. Even the Catholic diocese had to apologise today for the comments of one of its bishops who inadvertently told kids the truth.

I'm tempted to lie to her just so that she won't offend anyone. I really don't want to. I don't think I should have to.

What would you do? Would you pretend that Santa exists even though you know that's not true? I love Christmas. I love all the Christmas traditions. The lights, the decorations, advent calendars, Christmas cookies. Even Christmas carols.
Why do kids need to believe in a mythical figure to make christmas magical? Isn't the other stuff enough? If it was any other religious or cultural sentiment would I be expected to lie and go against my beliefs to enable other people to continue with their deceit?

[quote worriedatthemoment]@user1481840227 so its ok for the misbeliever to upset the believer but not the other way round
Most kids don't actually think this deeply its their parents and adults that do as in the original op [/quote]
What I'm saying is that a non-believer should not have to lie to keep the secret.
I think it's fine to ask them not to blurt anything out and respect others, but I don't think it's fair to ask them to lie at all. If the believer is upset then it's not the non-believers fault, the issue came about because the whole thing is a lie.

If a non-believer is upset because a believer calls them naughty then that's just not fair at all. Many kids hate being called naughty and would hate if others saw them that way, especially when they knew it was a lie! Little kids in my experience hate perceived injustices like that!

My parents never made me believe in santa. He still filled my stocking though and I knew it was them and appreciated them all the more for it! We just talked about it in terms of a lovely story or tradition. And it didn't spoil Christmas for me. But my partner really wants me to get our son on board with the whole believing thing. I don't mind it though don't really get it and also just forget to keep up the pretence - cue annual fight where I inadvertently something about stocking fillers in front of a child.
I really don't think you need to do this if you don't want to. There's no right or wrong to it, it's just a kind of custom and it's not harmful either way. It does add to the whole consumerist burden though, unless you go down the nuts and oranges route.

Christmas has been intertwined with Santa/Father Christmas for centuries. Why would you resent having to tell her to he respectful of other people's feelings, that's a good lesson to learn. Or you could just let her be like the other kids and have the fun of believing. 3 children , all got excited about Father Christmas and when they d worked it out enjoined being part of the magic for the younger ones.

@DroopyClematis

I recall one year , whilst working in a Year 2 class,near Christmas, that a child, whose parents were JW, told the other children at their table that Father Christmas didn't exist and that their parents were lying to them and that when they got older that they'd realise that they'd been lied to.

Teacher and I only discovered this the following day after complaints from other parents.

It was so very difficult to address.

Trouble is, this child was correct.

Did you tell the child that her parents had lied to her about God to balance things out? I always felt sorry for the JW children who couldn't join in any Christmas stuff at school or have the class crown on their birthday.

That seems even weirder to leave out mince pies and carrots without the belief.

You don’t have to do Santa/Father Christmas/St. Nicholas and you have no responsibility for protecting a story told by other people. I would, for the sake of your own child, fill them in on the fact that many peers will believe and may suffer hurt feelings if that belief is challenged.

You do you.
There have always been families and kids that don't do Santa. World still turns.
So your kid is not cast out, I would just tell it as a story. If they ask you if it's true, tell them it's a folk tale handed down but lots of kids and families enjoy having fun with it being true.

There have been some interesting and some helpful replies but the amount if vitriol this thread has attracted just proves my original point. A lot of British parents are militant about Santa (at least on Mumsnet) even to the extent that they insist that any parent who does things slightly differently has to be performance parenting for the sake of other people and any child who might inadvertently mention Santa is a smug and nasty little shit. Two things:

1. Somebody should tell Laurence Fox and his mates that the UK is not the most tolerant country in this world (not once you don't buy into their traditions)

1. The next time someone complains that in this country you have to bend over backwards for other religions I'm going to throw Santa in their face.

The amount of self righteous hand wringing about the deceit of Santa on mumsnet defies belief. I’ve never known this be an issue in the real world!

I grew up abroad, attending a school with a very diverse mix of Christians, Jews, Muslims and Sikhs. My belief in Santa survived intact despite many of my classmates not believing because I was told by my mother ‘lots of people believe lots of different things, and Santa only visits the people who want him to’. Kids are resilient about their own beliefs. You don’t need to be so precious about it.

If you feel the need to have a conversation with your daughter about it, instead of just raising her without this particular tradition, just tell her different people believe in different things and it’s good to be respectful of other’s beliefs even if we don’t share them. Unless she’s spiteful or a bully, that should be sufficient to stop her trying to convince her classmates that they’re all the victims of a terrible conspiracy.

And please stop wanging on judgementally about ‘deceit’. It just makes you look like a cow.

We’re not christians so we don’t celebrate xmas, my son knows santa isn’t real, just like he knows the easter bunny isn’t real.

It isn’t a big deal, its no different to a non-sikh child not believing in waheguru, or non-hindu children not believing in shiva.

The UK does seem very militant about people who aren’t christians and some genuinely seem to believe children who aren’t christians are miserable, odd really.

just tell her different people believe in different things

This

I never believed in Santa and despite growing up in a church going household, I never believed in God either. There really is no reason to make a mountain out of a molehill.

You can parent however you like and accept the consequences. But - like with any parenting choice - you don’t have the right to expect that your parenting choices won’t have any social consequences for your DD.

[quote Stomacharmeleon]@Glugglejug thank you for saying that.... I say 125738 times a year that his name is Father Christmas and not chuffing Santa. [/quote]
Only in England. In Scotland / Ireland we say Santa.

You don't wanna do Santa fine just shut up and don't ruin the holidays for others that do do it my family weren't religious but we still had Santa

Stop being lazy and lie to your kids like the rest of us do.

@AliveAndSleeping

Why?

Because there’s very little magic and innocence left in this world. It brings pure happiness and joy to my kids, and they are soooo excited! That’s good enough for me to lie to them.

Santa's a git. He creepily watches your every move to make sure if you've been good. And no matter how good you are he gives the best presents to the rich bully who lives down the street. Why would you want your DCs to believe in him?

@Aposterhasnoname

I feel so, so sorry for the posters that pop up with this every year. Obviously they missed out on the magic of believing as a child, and as a result genuinely don’t know what their child will miss out on.

I’m in my 50s, and I can still remember the excitement of lying in bed with my sister, listening to my dad in the loft Santa on the roof. It was the best feeling ever. Took my DGS to see Santa today, his little face with the wonder of it all. How could you deny a kid that joy.

I’m the same age as you and could have written this.

Decades later I remember the excitement so clearly, where I didn’t sleep and would sneak down in the early hours to see if he had been, and the joy when he had.

I didn’t deny my DC. that joy either.

Why spoil the magic for children worldwide? Don't be a grinch

I know Santa is real because his reindeer have $h!£ on my roof and blocked the gutters.

I have a 5yo and she is so excited about Christmas. I’d be gutted if another 5yo told her Santa wasn’t real. There are lots of siblings in the class so it is a risk for us. I wouldn’t blame the 5yo at all but would be disappointed.

At that age there are so many ways you could deflect (eg questions like what do you think? ) rather than flat out saying he doesn’t exist. It just seems a bit miserable at that age tbh. It’s your choice but every year there are some
very serious threads on here about not lying about Santa. The vast majority of families take part and enjoy it.

Fc is no different than other religious beliefs. I always tell my kids that other people believe different things to them and it's not up to them to challenge others beliefs, FC is the same.

It's the little fuckers who delight in enlightening other children and believe you me plenty of kids do just this.

Well I don’t believe in god. When my dc asked if god exists, I said well some people believe so and others don’t. But no one really knows.
Wouldn’t that have been a better answer for a small child on Santa? Then they can believe or not, their choice. And not think their friends are all stupid/being lied to.

Little kids love fantasy worlds. They have amazing imagination and anything magical or exciting just brings them joy. Think how many little kids want to be a princess or a flying dragon or whatever they can imagine when they grow up. Kids love magic.

I was fixed on fairies when I was about 7. I was convinced I’d seen some in the garden. I’d spend weekends looking for them, I told my parents who saw how excited I found it all that I thought id discovered fairies.
One day I went out and there was a little fairy door on one of trees. Well hidden but I remember to this day the absolute joy and excitement I felt.

Obviously I realised a few years later when I’d moved on from fairies my dad had made it and put it there. Do I hate him? No. I bloody love him because that day I remember so clearly. Just a little kid finding joy in something that wasn’t real.
What if my dad had decided to just tell me straight out fairies don’t exist, don’t be stupid. I’d still be who I am today, but I’m so glad he didn’t crush that bit of magical nonsense I had as a child.

I think outright telling a small child there’s no Santa just because you don’t want to lie to them or believe it adds magic to YOUR Christmas is a bit shit.
Your dd is 5! Are you going to take away every bit of magic she encounters in her short childhood so it’s not a lie? I find that very sad for her actually.

Every.goddamned.year. 🙄

How superior of you.