To wonder if our children would be the ‘poor’ ones at private school

[Changethefloorthroughout]

DH and I have a good joint income of over £100,000 and I’m seriously considering private school for our children.

A worry for me is if they are surrounded by children from much wealthier backgrounds if they would feel ‘poor’. I’m just posting for thoughts from people who know a bit more about the independent system than me.

It sounds like you can afford it on paper. Do think about the extras though. Uniform is expensive, £130 for a blazer for us, approx £1000 for a full set of winter and summer uniform and pe kits. About £400 for uniform top ups per year thereafter.

Compulsory lunches in lower school.

It would be difficult to keep saying no to everything if you'd had to tighten your purse strings; singing lessons, two night residential here, three nights in London there, two theatre trips - thats just been for one child this term.

To come back to your original question realistically it will depend on the type of school you choose and the friends / cohort they end up with.

@Changethefloorthroughout

That’s no guarantee of strong finances. I’m not saying it doesn’t have a great foundation, but download their last annual report and read the Head’s and Chair’s report in detail and see what their debtor book is like and how full they are.

Plenty of well established schools have left the arena recently.

It’s not a criticism - I do this for a living. I’m just advising you of some of the pitfalls many don’t consider.

Christ how boring that we are only allowed to post now if we are ‘properly poor’ …. @Changethefloorthroughout this is a very valid question.

I went to state school, and was bullied for being ‘the rich one’

My ex went to a private school on scholarship as his dad was a teacher, and was ‘the poor one’. He definitely had a huge chip on his shoulder about it and gave him loads of insecurity issues. Plus his other friends did look down on him and he didn’t seem to really fit in there, no matter how hard he tried.

So it is an actual issue to be concerned about,I think you have a valid question and nobody else needs to give ‘permission’ on this board for you to post it, PP are being ridiculous

I think you need c. £300k pa to send two children to a good public school and afford new school clothes, all the extras, clubs, school trips and for them to fit in. This is because fees go up every year by way more than inflation. By the time you get to the final year you will find they are much higher than the first year.

My friend has chosen to send her one dc to a 25k independent. Her dc seemed perfectly happy in state school and didn't want to leave it, but, (fond as I am of her), my friend is an unabashed snob and admits that she and her husband have made the decision because she basically thinks the local state school is beneath them.

I don't know what they earn. Her Dh is a professional, and she works, so I'd imagine 100k plus, but I do know that they have to make an awful lot of sacrifices. Her dc is currently having a lot of mental health issues, has made a decision not to go to university, and seems happier hanging out with old state school friends.

Why they have chosen this route is beyond me.

@Spaceman1

I think you need c. £300k pa to send two children to a good public school and afford new school clothes, all the extras, clubs, school trips and for them to fit in. This is because fees go up every year by way more than inflation. By the time you get to the final year you will find they are much higher than the first year.

It will have cost us around £150k by the time both have left. Private rather than Public school though. It’s an excellent non selective school that achieves results similar to those of the local Grammar.

So many Hyacinths on this thread, it’s amusing.

So glad we never got on the “keeping up with the Joneses” hamster wheel.

DH and both his parents went to public school. MIL family were very wealthy, staff, overseas holidays in the 1950’s a tennis court plus a second home. FIL was a scholarship boy from a very modest background, his Mum worked in a shop and his Dad worked as a clerk. DH lived in a beautiful house on a private road in Surrey they had a housekeeper and second home, horses and the house sold about a 15 years ago for 2 million. They moved out 25 years ago when in laws divorced.

MIL and DH are two of the nicest people you could ever meet, have time for everyone and lovely manners. , FIL was a very insecure man that was obsessed with status. I am convinced being the poor kid at his very expensive boarding school messed him up. But this was just post war and honestly the class system was alive and kicking then.

I am but a humble state school kid who was clever and ended up at a leading University where I met DH. The percentage of public school kids was really high there and an eye opener. We chose to send DS to a state school. The polish and confidence people talk about that private school influences. DS has that regardless. It’s shallow but I think being one of the well off kids at state school helps make them popular. There was a group of six boys including DS who were all very popular and all bar one lived on the very expensive roads in our locality.

Fine at a small independent. Or a bigger one. I was the poor kid at line and survived.

I only mentioned southeast because of the notorious cost of living here!

Our local private is about £10k a year and our combined income is lower than yours. We managed to pay £10k a year for nursery which is a pretty standard cost so I guess it’s affordable for 1!

If it a selective school with an exam / interview process and they get in, then it’s probably worth the money because the GCSE / A-level results will be better than in the state sector and academic expectations will be higher throughout.

If it’s a “give us your money and you’re all welcome” type of school, I wouldn’t bother personally - unless your children really need smaller class sizes for social reasons or something like that?

It’s not all about results, but you did need to be very clear what it is you’re paying for.

@NoAprilFool

A lot of people on this thread seem to think that the cost of their local private schools are the same as in the OP’s area. I’m sure OP has looked into the fees. There is a huge variation across the country.

DH and I were both state educated, so I can only share the experience of my DD’s private school. We hadn’t intended to go private but there was literally no wrap around care available with the state options, and we were already used to shelling out about the same in nursery fees. Would have been nice to have had the extra, but didn’t miss it.

We’re on roughly similar income OP and are at the lower end of the wealth scale. But it really doesn’t matter. We can still afford uniform (although there’s a thriving second hand market - that everyone uses, no stigma, for uniforms and sports equipment), we can afford trips. Maybe not every single one - but there are very few parents who agree to every trip anyway.

I can assure Pumperthepumper that no staff at school have any idea what our income is. Why would they???

I would recommend choosing your school carefully, DD’s school is quite large so there’s a huge mix of backgrounds and income. And interests, lots of opportunities to find your tribe.

Most of the kids in her class have 2 working parents, I think only 2 (out of 26) don’t. I’m not saying that the experience of PP is incorrect, only that their experiences are their own, schools vary widely, so choose carefully.

We haven’t regretted it for a moment.

The wrap around care comment is pertinent too - the long school day, being picked up by minibus at 7:45am and dropped back off at 6:30pm, having done activities at school, meant I could restart my career properly, go from pt to ft. Dh commuted so left before that and got back later.

Some of the other mothers were SAHMs, but plenty of others worked.

As for the comment upthread about worrying your kids wouldn't be able to mix with "normal" people. Seriously??? How prejudiced is that.

We chosen not to send or kids to private school - we want them to know they’re privileged and learn how to get on in the world with all
Sorts of people

Silly comment / just because you go to private school doesn’t mean you can’t also be brought up like that.

God, our local private school is as rough as hell, botoxed to oblivion, loud, beauty salon Mums and aggressive, business (puppy farmer) Dad's. Several families have connections with drug dealing and one father went to prison for people trafficking
I will stick with the state secondary, where the teachers, nurses, police and fire fighters send their kids thanks.

@Changethefloorthroughout
On that income and if you are already worrying about fitting in, I would do state ‘plus’ - you can do a ton top class extra curricular out of school and do interesting foreign travel, museums, galleries. You won’t know this if you don’t go to private school, but I have often had to play down my school as there is less and less appetite for those who had a seemingly entitled education, especially with our current crop of politicians behaving like they are. There was a very odd thread on ‘eduction’ about this earlier in the week, someone with a similar income and some very entrenched views about state education which where frankly ridiculous in 2021.

The “poorer” kids at private school are still on the whole vastly more privileged than most of the children in the country. They might not be as mega rich as some of their friends, but still have fairly privileged lives.

If they were at state school there’d probably be more difference between OPs kids and the actual poor kids who go there. Maybe not in terms of actual wealth, but certainly in life style and opportunities.

So OP would you rather your kids were at the top end of the affluence spectrum and a school or near the bottom? It doesn’t really matter so long as they’re happy and learning.

Even at the same school it will depend on what group they fall in with. Dd1’s group of friends all had middle class, middle aged parents. We are worse off than them comparatively and don’t have as flashy holidays or the latest everything like they do. DD2s group of friends are much more working class, and they all think DD2s life is a bit flash as she does more hobbies and day trips and we manage a budget holiday abroad most years. It’s all about perspective.

I think you should spend less time worrying about that and more time teaching your children that money doesn’t make a person. Who cares if the other kid’s parents have more money? What difference does it make you you and your children? Anyone who ridicules someone for lack of money isn’t worth knowing.

Wherever you send your children, there will be some richer and some poorer, in financial, cultural and social capital.

Your dilemma is really whether you want them to be the relatively rich ones in a state school or the relatively poor ones in a private/public school.

The ideal answer is to find a school where they will be valued for who they are rather than their parent's background. And to encourage your children to follow such a culture recognising that it begins at home: can you honestly say that you do not, at some level, think that richest is somehow better ?

What do you know about the culture prevalent in the schools you are considering? Not just what they tell you, but how they live that culture.

@Changethefloorthroughout

I don’t think it’s particularly rural. I mean, Not London, but still a smallish city. We live fairly rurally, which is one reason I’m giving serious consideration to private schools, as the private schools are actually close to the (state) school I work in which would help with pick ups and drop offs. That’s a fairly minor reason but is still a reason.

Your children aren’t going to be coming home at the same time as you finish work at your state school. There will always be activities/prep that they’d rather be at school for. The daily hours will be very different

Shit the bed, you are worried about your kids being considered poor at private school on a joint income of £100k. My 16 year old daughter is getting extra money from college to buy food over the holidays. That's being poor!!

@cookiemon666

Shit the bed, you are worried about your kids being considered poor at private school on a joint income of £100k. My 16 year old daughter is getting extra money from college to buy food over the holidays. That's being poor!!

@cookiemon666 FFS it’s called CONTEXT. if you don’t understand that, don’t comment. What a pointless comment

Don't think many full scholorships exist now
My friend prob has similar salary and sent her 2 dd to private school
Local small independent and kids varied some were similar to them others lived in huge houses
I think at a more presitige expensive private school it would be people on a larger salary mainly as the fees alone are huge
My sons friend goes to one and they live in a huge house etc
Saying that they know each other through a shared sport and we live in a council house, ds at state college now but there still mates as his parents although rich don't look down at others , they and their son judge people as they find them

My DC go to private school in London, not a fancy one but solid. We looked at 3 others and preferred this one because it seemed more down to earth. They offer lots of scholarships and bursaries which keeps the mix more balanced. I really think it depends on the school.
I would guess we are middle to bottom half on the affluence scale but, honestly, I couldn't tell you and my DC are oblivious.
DC are only young though so it may be very different at secondary. Plus Covid has meant the big holidays aren't so apparent. On the whole both parents work, there are a few SAHMs.

My DH went to private schools all through, including a "name". He very much feels that we are among the poorest at school. I think things have changed hugely in the past 30 years - he said at school there would be children of average accountants and solicitors, doctors etc - but now it seems that you have to be a partner in a firm or a banker to afford the fees. His father was a senior manager (below board level) at a household name company in the 1980s and 1990s but he said his income was around £75k and the same job now would probably pay around £150k. Life seems more expensive now.

One tip I would give is this- work out the cost in total. We have worked out what it will roughly cost until 11 by adding to baseline fees 10% for extras, then 5% for inflation each year. We then divided by the number of years to get an average and save that each year. We pay a year in advance (to get a discount) and already have a good slush fund building up.
We have done it all through to 18 for two so we save a ridiculous amount each month but at least we won't have to find the extra each year and hopefully won't have to start cutting back to afford the fees.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with private for primary. We have some ok state options nearby (we didn't get into those but moved earlier this year so it could be a possibility) but the secondary provision is dire. My DH's reasoning is to get DC into a decent selective state secondary we need to send them to private primary.

I see this thread has bought out the professionally offended. I dont think its an unreasonable thing to ask at all. Context is everything, and im a bit bewildered that some dont seem to understand that.

OP its not just about fees. Its about affording all the extras too. If I couldnt comfortably afford it, I wouldnt do it.

@Letsallscreamatthesistene

The use of the word poor is ridiculous, don’t see how you can’t see that?

Could have said will we be the obviously less well off?!!