to think health professionals shouldn't shame people

[EmmaGrundyForPM]

My son did not get a Covid jab. His rationale was that his risk of serious illness was very low even if he contracted it, and that all those who are at high risk have now been jabbed. I don't agree with that argument, and have had all 3 jabs myself, but respect that that is his view. He also suffers from anxiety and panic attacks.

He finally decided to have the vaccine, as he realises that various restrictions might impact on him (Covid passports etc) if he remains unvaccinated. So he went off yo the walk-in centre to get one this morning.

He's just got home fuming. When he presented himself, the person registering him asked him why he hadn't had his jab earlier. Why would that be any of their business? He then went through to the vaccinator who asked the same thing. He did explain that he had changed his mind because he wants to go to concerts and to visit his grandparents abroad. The vaccinator then said "that's a very selfish attitude, you won't have a vaccine to prevent people dying but you will to go on holiday".

Surely Health Professionals ought to be encouraging people to get vaccinated, not shaming them? I've given him grief about not getting vaccinated but I'm his Mum and he lives with us. I volunteer in a vaccine clinic and have always made a point of being really positive towards everyone who comes for their vaccine. AIBU?

@DroopyClematis

This thread is so revealing of people's perceptions and thoughts. I'm aghast . HCPs are there to support us. Sometimes home truths need telling .

Being asked why you've only just come forward for your first jab is perfectly reasonable. Is it anxiety? Is it because you're worried about some misinformation? Is it because you couldn't be bothered?
The health service need to know so that it can , effectively, alter its directives to ensure best practice.

If you're 17 stone, smoke and lead a sedentary life you should be questioned by a HCP when accessing NHS services.
Why shouldn't a reluctant vaxxer be questioned?

I'm not a fan of the term 'snowflakes' but I do think , sometimes, that a lot of us are.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you on this...

But to be told you are selfish for not going sooner, and told you are selfish for the reasons you are finally getting the jab... I think those thoughts should have stayed in the vaccinators head and not come out their mouth.

Lots of St John Ambulance volunteers administer vaccines, and a lot of them are not HCPs.. are just volunteer first aiders.

No, there are not 'lots'.

The article names one.

I know many people who are qualified workplace first aiders (trained by St John etc) and there is no way they are being called up or allowed to vaccinate.

I've had 3 jabs. By 2 nurses and one pharmacist. I don't know of anyone across the UK who has been jabbed by a volunteer.

The government was talking recently of drafting in the army to give boosters. Why would they do that if unqualified vols were there?

@DroopyClematis

This thread is so revealing of people's perceptions and thoughts. I'm aghast . HCPs are there to support us. Sometimes home truths need telling .

Being asked why you've only just come forward for your first jab is perfectly reasonable. Is it anxiety? Is it because you're worried about some misinformation? Is it because you couldn't be bothered?
The health service need to know so that it can , effectively, alter its directives to ensure best practice.

If you're 17 stone, smoke and lead a sedentary life you should be questioned by a HCP when accessing NHS services.
Why shouldn't a reluctant vaxxer be questioned?

I'm not a fan of the term 'snowflakes' but I do think , sometimes, that a lot of us are.

Ask the question, fine. Judge the answer, not fine because it’s not constructive in this context (someone correcting a course of action to get vaccinated).

In some contexts it’s absolutely appropriate for HCPs to challenge or express an opinion.
But this context it’s not helpful.

That's horrible of them. Everyone makes mistakes.

It's also likely to undermine the result they want. If people fear being shamed, they won't come forward.

By all means, the HCP can go home and moan to their families about all the people who didn't get their vaccine when it was first offered. But don't say it to the patient!

I'd encourage your son to put in a complaint.

@whyayepetal

YANBU. I am an immuniser, and am always delighted when someone comes forward for vaccination having spent some time considering whether this is for them having asked questions along the way. This is informed consent. I am also content if someone declines vaccination having done the same things. This is informed dissent. I try to support everyone who comes to our centres whatever their decision. Someone who feels that their views have been heard and valued is more likely to talk to HCPs again in future, and therefore will have the information to enable them to make an informed decision.

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

@EricCartmansUnderpants

No idea, we’ll have to wait and see. Or maybe other countries won’t grant visitor visas to unvaccinated people, and they’ll never be able to leave the country again? Who knows? Time will tell.

Not everyone gives a shiny shit about sunning themselves on cheap package holidays in Spain. Hardly a threat. Depends on what your priorities are. Travelling abroad certainly isn't one of mine. And people can weigh that up for themselves can't they.

A lot of us do t have worlds that are so small that all of our family live in one country or continent. I don’t care what your personal opinion on travel or chavvy holidays are.

Of course people will weigh it up for themselves. I never said they wouldn’t. But a lot of people are going to change their minds about vaccines when they feel their life activities are too limited. Others will happily limit their life activities to uphold their rights to refuse vaccines.

@underthebed

Shocked by some of the comments here. I shouldn't be, I've been on Mumsnet long enough. Regardless of your personal opinion and whether you agree with the health care professional or not, it is completely unacceptable to make comments like this on the job. One of the worst things about Covid is how people think it's appropriate to treat each other now - with utter disdain if they have differing views to their own.

Yes but it's not just a "view" is it ? It's something that affects the community and can end up using NHS resources which could have been avoided .

HCPs are also human, and at this stage I suspect their compassion and patience is running dry. There's only so much human stupidity you can deal with, and so many hours you can spend covered in PPE caring for stupid people who only cared about covid when it affected themselves and their loved ones, before you start losing your composure and professionalism.

I'm not surprised so many people agree the vaccinator is right to speak to your son the way they did. This is our Health Secretary after all: twitter.com/sajidjavid/status/1460716716951056395?t=gVzl2HYj-CDz6-yKolUZ7g&s=19

Speaks to people however he likes.

@aurynne

HCPs are also human, and at this stage I suspect their compassion and patience is running dry. There's only so much human stupidity you can deal with, and so many hours you can spend covered in PPE caring for stupid people who only cared about covid when it affected themselves and their loved ones, before you start losing your composure and professionalism.

Hope you're not a HCP

@GreenLunchBox unfortunately for you, I am. But don't worry, I may choose to stop being one if things get as bad where I am as they are where you are. It's something I am seriously considering. Then you and others can deal with no HCPs left to care for them in hospitals.

But hey, you won't have to put up with painful truths either.

[quote aurynne]@GreenLunchBox unfortunately for you, I am. But don't worry, I may choose to stop being one if things get as bad where I am as they are where you are. It's something I am seriously considering. Then you and others can deal with no HCPs left to care for them in hospitals.

But hey, you won't have to put up with painful truths either.[/quote]
LOL

I've never used this before, but here's one for him on me!

@PooWillyNameChange

I agree that the approach probably won’t encourage people to get vaccinated and is counterproductive, but I also agree with them that he has a selfish attitude…though they probably should have kept their opinion to themselves. You must understand their frustration though, surely?

Yes this.

i don't think judging people is helpful.. but his 'anxiety' seems to have righted itself in the face of not being able to go the pub/ on holiday, so he does appear to be a nob.

Completely unprofessional. I also love the way that people only got vaccinated for purely altruistic reasons and nothing to do with self-interest. If you can't contain your judgement then maybe you need to question whether you are in the right job.

I am vaccinated and YANBU, this sort of comment will just put people off and possibly make them uneasy about getting the second dose.

I don’t care what your personal opinion on travel or chavvy holidays are

You're not coming across well here. Somehow makes me doubt that you got vaccinated as an act of altruism, you don't sound like you're capable of it.

It's personal choice what he chooses to do. People have genuine and personal reasons for not having it and shouldn't have to explain it to a vaccinator. A women my age living on my estate died of a blood clot 1 week after her vaccine. It gave me huge anxiety about it, especially as I've had mine a similar time.
Plus you can still carry and pass on covid after the vaccine.
It's health risk to himself yes but so is smoking, drinking, not having smear tests etc

That’s so unprofessional!
I’m triple vaccinated but tbh I did just get the jabs so I can get on with my life and do stuff. Many people I’ve spoken to did!

I’d have jabbed him with the thickest needle I could find. So he got off lightly, even if it wasn’t strictly professional

I hope you're not a health professional.

My Ds is a teenager, autistic and has complex mental health difficulties. Due to these difficulties, he's not yet been vaccinated. A health professional suggesting that he is selfish and irresponsible, is likely to have a profoundly negative impact on him.

It's okay though, no need for others to panic about how selfish they think he is. His difficulties mean that he barely leaves his bedroom now, let alone our home. So he won't be out and about causing any problems for those that are vaccinated.

Your son is not being unreasonable. It is none of their business. He's doing what is best for him. It's disgusting he thinks he needs to get the vaccine for travel reasons. He should be able to travel freely. Your son has my full sympathy. I always use the analogy - is it selfish for me to want a bigger house and demand the doctor he give me a share of his wages?

In this case it's true. Maybe shouldn't have said it but it's what everyone really thinks about your selfish son. Ok if its effects him personally eg going to a concert but not if it helped others.

I hope you're not a health professional

I’m definitely not. Your daughter and the population at large is safe.

*son, sorry.