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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be worried my sister is doing the Alpha course?

510 replies

Southtrainer · 11/12/2021 11:30

Just for a bit of context. My family is and always has been agnostic and left wing. My sister (early thirties) recently met a new partner who comes from a very religious evangelical Christian family. Their relationship surprised us all thinking there was be such a gulf that they wouldn’t stay together long but recently my brother told me my sister is doing the Alpha course and he was concerned she might have some pressure on her to convert to their religion. I’d this right? I’ve never had any experience of this course or religion. I’m worried. Thanks for any info or experiences x

OP posts:
Againstmachine · 12/12/2021 21:27

So zero evidence then

wishforgood · 12/12/2021 21:40

Some religions are of the opinion that the path they follow is the only path.
The religions that embrace interfaith are usually more tolerant.

However with your relative you are powerless over the choices she makes and the most important thing to do is take care of yourself and focus on your life
.I was in a cult once and didn't listen to anyone my relatives were all upset,I left of my own accord.
Its true of myself when I focus on my own life I'm much happier than when I focus on someone else's life.
wishing you peace and happiness

kmblark · 12/12/2021 21:45

Yes, there's talk of wives respecting and submitting to their husbands - but the corollary of that is an expectation that husbands will love their wives as they do their own bodies.

That still seems like a red flag to me.

In my view, you should be pleased that he is taking this step before he commits to a possible longer term relationship.

And the OP's sister giving up her job, ditching her gay friends, going quiet when he comes in the room. Should she be glad of that too?

VitalSpark · 12/12/2021 21:46

All organized religion is cult like, remember this!

Violinist64 · 12/12/2021 21:47

As a practising Christian and member of the United Reformed Church, there are a lot of people here who profess no faith but sweepingly describe all Christians as belonging to a cult, being judgmental and unfeeling and completely out of touch. This is not true of most Christians and most churches. There are some very fundamental Christians, as there are in all religions, but they are very much in the minority, For me, it means accepting Jesus as my personal saviour and trying to follow His example. Christianity is for everyone who wishes to follow it, regardless of social background, ethnicity, sexuality or anything else. The Alpha course is a place to explore Christianity and ask questions about it. Christianity is not taught in many schools as much as it was when most of us were at school and many adults have only a vague idea about it. Yes, it is also a way of evangelising but it certainly does not force anyone to believe, which would be impossible in any case.

CateJW · 12/12/2021 21:48

Alpha course isn't that heavy.
I went on many Christians weekends and such in my teen years as went to a church youth group and my childhood sweetheart and friendship group where all Christians, but never felt any pressure to "convert"

Gillimac37 · 12/12/2021 21:52

@Againstmachine

Glad alpha question but do they accept there is no evidence of Jesus at all. And even if you read that lots of scholars think he did there is still none.
Not quite true! Roman historians Tacitus and Josephus both record John the Baptist and Jesus in their historical (and not Christain) writings along with the whole of the eye witness accounts from the New Testament.
paws17 · 12/12/2021 22:16

@kmblark

Yes, there's talk of wives respecting and submitting to their husbands - but the corollary of that is an expectation that husbands will love their wives as they do their own bodies.

That still seems like a red flag to me.

In my view, you should be pleased that he is taking this step before he commits to a possible longer term relationship.

And the OP's sister giving up her job, ditching her gay friends, going quiet when he comes in the room. Should she be glad of that too?

I'm definitely not sticking up for the male partner - Just putting forward the scriptural basis for Christian marriage. Christian marriage isn't for everyone - but I suspect that a "biblical-standard" marriage would, on balance, provide a more stable base for a long-term relationship (and for the well-being of children) than "civil ceremonies" or other informal arrangements where the participants make far fewer & less strong promises to one another. (Tin hat at the ready...)

I agree with you that the evidence doesn't look all that good at the moment - in which case, the sister needs to evaluate his actions & demands against the biblical standard that he should be upholding, and not enter in to a long term relationship with him if he appears unlikely to be able to live up to the biblical demand that he should, effectively, put her interests and well-being before his own in all things, and on all occasions.

Embracelife · 12/12/2021 22:19

[quote Southtrainer]@PerfectPrepPrincess
I suppose initially their very different views that she suddenly stopped talking about in front of him, she stopped seeing her gay friends, he comes into zoom family chats and she goes quiet. She gave up a good job and life to
Move across the country to be with him (which I suppose is normal but he didn’t offer to move there).

Im still not sold on her not being converted. As another rooster said- that is part of what evangelical Christians believe is it not?[/quote]
Sounds controlling
Religion or not
Just be there when she needs support

Was,she depressed or anxious?
Vulnerable?
Ready to be sucked in?

Exp got into alpha when he was in bad place... took dc on a camp... they had to stand in circle and say they felt
Jesus in their hearts

It didn't convert them from agnostics
But was weird
But yeh exp sent me some of their books it was all about sticking with your husband no matter what (abuse or whatever)

So yeh I would be worried your sister sucked into controlling relationship
Not that she exploring religion for her own sake

Embracelife · 12/12/2021 22:24

www.philosophyforlife.org/blog/is-alpha-and-htb-as-bad-as-alex-preston-says

Generating ecstacy thru music and ritual

Meadowlands · 12/12/2021 22:28

I have done an Alpha course. Met lots of lovely people and had frank but friendly discussions about faith.
No pressure, no judgement.
Please don't worry.

VitalSpark · 12/12/2021 22:34

Please ask your sister to do a course in physics, much more useful

Embracelife · 12/12/2021 22:59

The worry here is not alpha course per se
But leaving and losing her friends etc
To be with
What sounds like a controlling person

kmblark · 12/12/2021 23:56

I'm definitely not sticking up for the male partner - Just putting forward the scriptural basis for Christian marriage. Christian marriage isn't for everyone - but I suspect that a "biblical-standard" marriage would, on balance, provide a more stable base for a long-term relationship (and for the well-being of children) than "civil ceremonies" or other informal arrangements where the participants make far fewer & less strong promises to one another. (Tin hat at the ready...)

Not Christian weddings can be just as formal and have just as many promises as Christian ones. Although whether a marriage lasts has nothing to do with the wedding. Good thing too since plenty of churches in the UK, including the CofE still don't allow same sex couples to get married there.

TreborBore · 13/12/2021 00:02

The Alpha course is ok, I’m not religious at all but it was an interesting set of discussions with nice people and food. No pressure.

Negligee · 13/12/2021 00:16

@paws17, please spare us the same tired old apologetics for patriarchy. Many of us are not in ignorance of the Bible’s ‘teachings on Christian marriage’. We grew up with that horseshit, saw its damaging effects, and we grew out of living our lives according to rules set down in an anthology whose most recent additions are nearly 2000 years old. Because of being adults.

Jjjayfee · 13/12/2021 00:28

I don't think you convert? I did the Alpha and the advanced course. It was, to me, just learning more about Christianity. Having been to UK schools I had already sung hymns and knew a couple of basic prayers. I didn't continue with the religion in terms of going to church. But the Christian principles are good principles to be guided by.

Jjjayfee · 13/12/2021 00:31

Perhaps Alpha is different depending on which church is presenting it. I am not easily influenced so it could perhaps have more influence on a suggestible person and I did challenge the homophobic views expressed in the group.

Negligee · 13/12/2021 00:50

@Jjjayfee

I don't think you convert? I did the Alpha and the advanced course. It was, to me, just learning more about Christianity. Having been to UK schools I had already sung hymns and knew a couple of basic prayers. I didn't continue with the religion in terms of going to church. But the Christian principles are good principles to be guided by.
I don’t think anyone’s suggesting you’re dragged kicking and screaming to the font, @Jjjayfee, but it’s a taster session for a very specific, and fairly pernicious, brand of Christianity.

Now 20 years old, but still interesting — Jon Ronson on doing the Alpha course:

www.theguardian.com/theguardian/2000/oct/21/weekend7.weekend

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2000/oct/21/weekend.jonronson

Galiano · 13/12/2021 07:08

I wouldn't be worried about the course itself, but I think you're right to be concerned about red flags in the relationship. I'm not sure how realistic this is, but she could do with taking the Freedom course www.freedomprogramme.co.uk/ to help her recognise the early signs of coercive, manipulative and controlling behaviour. Even suggesting it may cause a rift though so I'd tread carefully. Go with your gut and try to encourage her to do the same. Powerful emotions can drown out that inner voice but I suspect on some level she'll have a sense of unease if something isn't right. There was a poster on the toilet door at work about DV that struck a cord with me even though it took me a while to acknowledge it, it isn't easy.

Peanutbutterrules1 · 13/12/2021 08:12

People will disagree but the source material of Christianity (The Bible) is awful. God is violent, sexist, homophobic. Christians say it all changes with Jesus but that’s nonsense. Jesus was a great teacher but he came in support of all the OT taught. Christianity is generally harmless but I would give anything associated with the evangelical wing of the CoE a wide berth. Alpha makes out it’s open and discussion is encouraged but they are out to convert people. It’s creepy and controlling. I have done it and taken part in running it. The church wants to convert people. Plus the talks are really really dull!!!!

Againstmachine · 13/12/2021 08:57

Not quite true! Roman historians Tacitus and Josephus both record John the Baptist and Jesus in their historical (and not Christain) writings along with the whole of the eye witness accounts from the New Testament.

Both those were wrote many years after jesus alleged life. As for using eyewitness accounts from the new testament as evidence that's laughable.

Bangolads · 13/12/2021 09:20

Lots of of left wing people are religious. The Alpha course is not cult initiation, it’s relatively sane. You have no proof that she has been coerced by her other half and are jumping to conclusions. I do understand your concerns but they are best expressed by staying close to her and being interested and less supercilious left.

Corbally · 13/12/2021 09:29

The Alpha course is not cult initiation, it’s relatively sane.

Did you miss the sessions on faith-healing and speaking in tongues?

EnidSpyton · 13/12/2021 10:00

For those saying Alpha is not dangerous, let's look at the facts.

It is marketed as being a place for people to 'find out more' about Christianity. But it is not an unbiased or fact-based course. It is a course that is strongly rooted in developing an emotional response as the basis for faith through psychological manipulation. Participants are pressured by the final weeks of the course to engage with the concept of the Holy Spirit, to have hands laid on them in healing, to speak in tongues, to prophesy over one another, etc. Much like the psychics and faith healers Christians decry, this Holy Spirit nonsense relies on cold reading people and confirmation bias. If I had a pound for the amount of church services I've attended where someone has come up to the front and said 'I just feel God's telling me there's someone with a pain in their leg who needs to be healed', I'd be a very rich woman. Look, in a congregation of 250 people, many of them old, what are the chances that at least one of them will have a pain in their leg? Pretty high. And then that person goes away feeling that God has been talking directly to them, when they haven't. Not at all. This is how evangelical Christianity works. When people think God is speaking directly to them, it gives them a high that they then keep craving. It is like an addiction.

This branch of Christianity is entirely self centred. It's all about developing a personal relationship with 'Jesus Christ my Lord and Saviour' - the kind of personal relationship that makes people genuinely believe God gives a shit about whether you're going to find a parking space at Tescos on Thursday morning after the school run (honestly, the number of evangelical Christians who do this and use it as evidence for God being interested in every little aspect of our lives, guys, you've just got to have faith and invite Him in! - is disturbing). This kind of personal relationship with Jesus also gives you permission to criticise and judge others , and justify and excuse your behaviour because Jesus told you to do it - 'I just feel that Jesus has guided me to stop doing insert thing I don't want to do anymore here' etc.

Again, people who keep saying this isn't their form of Christianity or this isn't their Church need to wake the fuck up.

You know the majority of UK churches are like this. You know the manipulation that goes on. You know the absolutely fucking massive cult indoctrination events dressed up as youth conferences and camps that happen in the UK every summer, you know the presence of these churches on university campuses, hoovering up thousands of vulnerable young people looking for a community where they can feel they belong, you know that they preach that homosexuals need to be healed, you know they preach that a woman's role is to get married and submit to her husband, you know they preach that women can't lead, you know all this. And yet you do nothing about it. If this isn't 'true' Christianity, then what are you doing to stop it? What is your lovely cuddly cosy C of E church that's super welcoming doing about it?

Evangelical churches of the type I describe are where Alpha came from, they are where the majority of Christians in this country worship, they are on every high street in every British town, and they are a scourge on society. They might have food banks and mum and baby groups and be full of lots of smiley, happy people, but at their heart they are rotten, hate filled organisations full of prejudice and judgement of anyone who doesn't want to have a traditional heterosexual marriage with a man who earns the money while his wife stays at home with their several children. If you're homosexual, if you're single or in a cohabiting relationship with no desire to get married, if you're divorced, if you're a single parent, if you're in any way living a life that doesn't fit the mould and you don't want to change that, then you will not be welcome and you will be made to feel a second class citizen. Once they realise you don't want to change, that is. At first you'll be love bombed, because you'll be a project. But then gradually you'll get frozen out.

Trust me, I've been there, done that, got the t shirt. I came out on the other side, but many people remain trapped with their mental health destroyed.

I know this sounds dramatic but honestly, unless you've been involved in these churches, you have no idea.

New Wine, Vineyard, New Frontiers, Elim, Soul Survivor, Hillsong, etc - look these places up. They are huge movements with tens of thousands of churches across the UK and spreading across the world. Beware.