To say that there is a huge amount of anti vax threads allowed on mumsnet?

[visitingagain]

I fully expect this to be taken down but I am getting completely fed up with the number of anti vax and anti mask threads on mumsnet at the moment. People should be allowed to express views but some of the misinformation is shocking.

You seem poorly read and ill informed. MN isn't about censoring opinions or debate. It's a discussion and advice forum. If there's no discussion or debate, it wouldn't exist.
I wonder if trying to rile people up against particular sections of society counts as a hate incident. I guess it could if the targeting correlates against a protected characteristic eg disability, pregnancy or belief.
It's frightening to see such blatant anti-intellectualism.

There isn't a wrong or right answer to being vaccinated

Yet 'lockdown lovers' are routinely mocked on here.

If enough people choose not to vaccinate (and idc the top ups against new variants) then it's going to mean more extensive and long-lasting restrictions. Though I suppose preferring lockdowns as means of control to vaccination, everyone else in society get to carry the consequences of that choice.

That is why I think they are far from evenly weighted issues

I don't know how people can claim there isn't a right or wrong answer in a general sense. There are absolutely people who cannot have the vaccine (but this is extremely rare), and there are - far more often - cases of anxiety and hesitancy which are, in themselves, valid and deserving of sympathy and support. I doubt there is anyone, no matter how staunchly pro-vaccine, who would claim that literally every single person in the UK should have it.

But that still doesn't make it two equally justified and justifiable sides of an argument. It is wrong to engage in Covid denialism and to misinform people about the vaccines. Misleading people about vaccine efficacy and safety leads to avoidable deaths.

MNHQ is not doing enough to support a pro-science perspective in this respect.

@visitingagain

But *@Powerpotpie*, there aren't two reasonable sides to the anti vax debate. There is the side that presents all the scientific facts eg. Get a vaccine because it's our best and only way to try and reduce deaths from covid and other excess deaths and overwhelming health systems. And there is the other side which includes " it's not fair" "they don't mean me though" " everyone knows only old/ fat/ stupid people will die " and then all the " I'm not against vaccines BUT " threads.

This comment reminds me of the attitudes on here to Brexit: Let’s debate how there is only one valid opinion and how stupid those people who I am unable to convince of that fact are.

It was not sarcastic. You are not psychic.

It was sarcastic and rude imo. You say it wasn’t. There’s nothing else to say on this.

Can someone point me to the posts that still remain that are anti vax please. And have you reported them?

MNHQ is not doing enough to support a pro-science perspective in this respect.

According to MNHQ in a Report reply to me, they are not epidemiologists and will therefore not delete posts stating that the vaccine kills an unspecified number of people. So, I’ve sort of given up now tbh. If they want the fact that unsubstantiated claims like that could lead to someone not having the vaccine, putting themselves and others in danger, then so be it 🤷‍♀️
Their circus, their antivaxx monkeys.

@Saucery

MNHQ is not doing enough to support a pro-science perspective in this respect.

According to MNHQ in a Report reply to me, they are not epidemiologists and will therefore not delete posts stating that the vaccine kills an unspecified number of people. So, I’ve sort of given up now tbh. If they want the fact that unsubstantiated claims like that could lead to someone not having the vaccine, putting themselves and others in danger, then so be it 🤷‍♀️
Their circus, their antivaxx monkeys.

Truly disturbing that they are intentionally platforming anti-vaxxers and targeting pro-vaccine posters for post deletion.

The problem with this approach during COVID is that antivaxx/vaccine hesitant people tend to be a) poorly-educated and b) with paranoid or anxious tendencies anyway.

Well that’s a theory but unfortunately it’s bollocks. The unvaccinated I know have chosen not to get the jab as they’ve a) had Covid or b) worried about side effects ( ie self employed and don’t take days off).

They are the opposite of paranoid and anxious. They are optimist and laid back and assume the worst won’t happen to them.

@ShinyHappyPoster

You seem poorly read and ill informed. MN isn't about censoring opinions or debate. It's a discussion and advice forum. If there's no discussion or debate, it wouldn't exist. I wonder if trying to rile people up against particular sections of society counts as a hate incident. I guess it could if the targeting correlates against a protected characteristic eg disability, pregnancy or belief. It's frightening to see such blatant anti-intellectualism.

Totally agree.

Truly disturbing that they are intentionally platforming anti-vaxxers and targeting pro-vaccine posters for post deletion.

It is. This wasn’t a case of a wrong percentage etc. It was a statement that the vaccine kills people. An unspecified amount of people. You don’t have to be an epidemiologist to know that’s false.
But hey, if that’s what they want then I won’t waste my time drawing such posts to their attention.

According to MNHQ in a Report reply to me, they are not epidemiologists and will therefore not delete posts stating that the vaccine kills an unspecified number of people.

Is there clear information for deaths resulting from the vaccine? I would presume it’s difficult to know the number as there could be other factors. Ive just googled and seen a figure but it was all very vague and said full investigations hadn’t been done yet and the number given was likely to be higher than the actual deaths when they were looked into more. The number does seem high as a figure but obviously when looked at in comparison to the amount having the vaccine, it will be a very small percent.

I can understand mumsnet not wanting to get involved if the figures are not all that clear, if that is the case, I’ve only googled quickly. I just presume the figure are low as we’d here more about it in the news, lots of us would know people it had happened to and we don’t. I know people who have had side effects from the vaccine but nothing more than sickness, headache, sore arm and a bit of tiredness.

*hear

It is. This wasn’t a case of a wrong percentage etc. It was a statement that the vaccine kills people. An unspecified amount of people. You don’t have to be an epidemiologist to know that’s false.
But hey, if that’s what they want then I won’t waste my time drawing such posts to their attention.

So that post still stands? Can you tell me which thread and when so I could read it.

Is there a definite figure for vaccine deaths? When I just googled, it all was very vague so I suppose those posters could use that vagueness to justify what they’re saying. People do twist statistics all the time to suit the argument. I think most people are sensible enough to realise that and know that the vaccine is killing loads of people.
I think mumsnet have banned people’s accounts for less though so I can see the frustration. They can do what they like though as they run it, as unfair as that seems at times.

I think most people are sensible enough to realise that and know that the vaccine is NOT killing loads of people.

What a typo! The vaccine is definitely NOT killing lots of people.

MN has a reputation for allowing discussion on certain topics that aren't considered "woke" or correct in the liberal mainstream media. The trans debate is just one of them, and all those nitpicking "women should be called women" discussions. There have also been plenty of racist threads against China (in the context of covid) or Dubai/UAE (human rights) that were not deleted despite extensive reporting.

What a ridiculous comment. Women are female, not male, and need clear health messages. Biology matters. It's completely hypocritical to cite "science!" on the efficacy of covid measures and then throw it out of the window to virtue signal about peoples gender identity issues. Women's rights conversations on MN have zero to do with racism, such a lazy, uninformed comparison.

Ereshkigalangcleg

I responded very similarly to you. Be prepared to be told not to derail the thread, even though you’re just responding to someone else who tried to sneak this shit in.

@Saucery

MNHQ is not doing enough to support a pro-science perspective in this respect.

According to MNHQ in a Report reply to me, they are not epidemiologists and will therefore not delete posts stating that the vaccine kills an unspecified number of people. So, I’ve sort of given up now tbh. If they want the fact that unsubstantiated claims like that could lead to someone not having the vaccine, putting themselves and others in danger, then so be it 🤷‍♀️
Their circus, their antivaxx monkeys.

This is shocking to me. The major problem i have is when someone who has deicded not to have vaccine is quoted incluidng own family memebers they have done own research and not having it. As they are not scientists they r not on same level. Its this weird thing where someones opinion is somehow on a level with a doctor who has spent carer on this specific subject. Like the arrogance. I think the internet is to blame. Just because information is out there doesnt mean anyone knows everything. Like i wouldnt go on a flight and assume i can fly the plane because ive 'done my research ' Anyone can say anything on here so we dont even know if these opnions of people are actual thoughts and not something bit different to suit their point of view. Misinformation is very dangerous

I responded very similarly to you. Be prepared to be told not to derail the thread, even though you’re just responding to someone else who tried to sneak this shit in.

Yes I've just seen

Also saw that you are an "extreme vegan" who believes the vaccine is morally wrong just because you have the word vegan in your username

Is there clear information for deaths resulting from the vaccine?

According to the Office for National Statistics, there have been 4 deaths in England (up to August this year) in which the vaccine initiated a chain of events directly leading to death. These could, of course, been cases of people who had, for instance, an existing condition that proved fatal due to an immune response triggered by the vaccine (and that might equally well have been triggered by the virus itself had they become infected).

Florianus

I saw a much higher figure, apparently from the yellow card scheme. I imagine there are various figures out there that people will use to justify their stance. I think mumsnet should go with the ONS, but maybe they just can’t be bothered to check. I suppose it brings in posters that debate, which from MN point of view, wanting more traffic, is a good thing. I agree that forums like this should take some responsibility for what’s posted, but they don’t have to.

The yellow card scheme largely reflects coincidence when it comes to deaths. Around 1400 people a day die in England and Wales, and with nearly half a million people a day being vaccinated, it is inevitable that quite a few will die soon after being jabbed.

To clarify, I have no anti vax agenda to push here. I've taken a decision not to be vaccinated, but that's my decision made for my own reasons. I'm not trying to convince people of my views, to dissuade others from getting vaccinated or to decry the decisions of those who have been. Please point to any post from me on this thread or others where I've expressed any such sentiment.

I'm Oxbridge educated so please don't try to label me as thick which is the stick usually used to beat the unvaccinated. I have had some vaccinations in the past as have my children. I have chosen not to have this one, as has my partner (albeit for slightly different reasons to me).

As a discussion forum we should be able to express differing views. I've not seen posts by the unvaccinated full of misinformation but I have seen a lot of dogmatic comments by the vaccinated trying to close down any discussions or dissenting views with 'if you're not vaccinated you're thick/ selfish/ ignorant/ condemning others to death.

I don't see the unvaccinated expressing the same sentiments or level of hostility, more just objecting to those comments.

It's called having a difference of opinion.