To say that there is a huge amount of anti vax threads allowed on mumsnet?

[visitingagain]

I fully expect this to be taken down but I am getting completely fed up with the number of anti vax and anti mask threads on mumsnet at the moment. People should be allowed to express views but some of the misinformation is shocking.

I'm also surprised so many threads are left up. Before covid, many anti vaxx threads were swiftly deleted for misinformation (eg the classic mmr causes autism argument). I can only imagine that MN is receiving massive amounts of traffic and need the ad revenue with pre-xmas high CPMs.

The problem with this approach during COVID is that antivaxx/vaccine hesitant people tend to be a) poorly-educated and b) with paranoid or anxious tendencies anyway. If MN took to deleting threads and comments or flagging them as inaccurate it would just fuel the general suspicion that they are trying to stifle us, keep us quiet, treat us like sheep etc. It didn't go well for Facebook when they started flagging posts as inaccurate.

I actually think MN largely has the right approach to this: it allows people ranging from the vaccine-anxious out to the full tin-foil hat brigade to put their views out there and by and large the more sensible views prevail.

Given that reaching vaccine-hesitant people is such a huge priority at the moment I don't think deleting threads expressing concern about vaccinations is the right way to go.

@Tootsey11

Well I'm sick of the threads were if someone is unsure or just doesn't want the vaccines, other posters pile on calling them thick stupid selfish anti vaxxers. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.

Until they start spouting untrue information

@thepeopleversuswork it would be nice to think the anti vax people are poorly educated but sadly that's not my experience. It cuts straight across all levels of society and seems to be connected to personal influences- people they know or admire either in real life or online. Look at Eric Clapton and Van Morrison.
There needs to be a huge bonfire of the covid threads to keep it in check before mumsnet turns into a notorious anti vax haven.

@visitingagain

There is a small but genuinely scary minority of clever but paranoid people who actually have done frightening amounts of research (always the wrong kind, like reading the rantings of Michael Yeadon etc). I slightly know someone who works in the pharmaceutical industry and posts really scary shit online, which I find staggering, not least because I'm amazed he hasn't lost his job. I think nine times out of ten these people are either a) congenital show-offs who like to be contrary and "counterculture" or b) paranoid or with mental health problems and pour all their attention into this stuff.

But the vast majority of the posts on here are from people who are genuinely worried but clearly not very well educated. They're either "I've done my research" (on the internet) or "my body my choice" (also from the internet) or "my second cousin twice removed had an adverse reaction" (paranoid anecdata). They are all people with a poor grasp of science and risk.

It made an otherwise boring wait entertaining and this is how I will now picture all anti vax posters

The thing is, all unvaccinated people seem to be called anti vaxers. But the unvaccinated people I know, including me, wouldn’t act like that. They wouldn’t spread misinformation or harass others about their decisions. They don’t think the vaccine doesn’t work, they just don’t want or can’t have the vaccine for a variety of reasons.

Tis to me, antivaxxers are the ones who try to persuade others they shouldn’t be vaccinated. Or wear masks or social distance either, in the vast majority of cases.
I’m sure your reason is valid. In fact “because I don’t want to” is valid, because as much as I would love to see a population vaccination rate in the 97% + range, I can’t get behind mandatory vaccinations. I think “I don’t want to” is the wrong decision but it’s not my decision. Just don’t try and back it up with utter nonsense some quack off the Internet has come up with.

I’m pretty sure that anyone who went round MN posting that Wakefield was right and the MMR gives children autism would be deleted quick sharp and rightly so. Well, this is a huge public health crisis we’re in right now and we can’t afford to let fake science get a hold of the people who might still be undecided about Covid vaccination.

Saucery

Unfortunately there’s lots of people who class all unvaccinated people as anti vax as in ‘they’re all people spreading lies, conspiracies and generally talking nonsense.’

I’d rather not be put in the same category as those people, but what can I do? I’m not vaccinated but I live a very quiet life, have worn a mask throughout, limit my contact with people as much as possible, social distance where possible and definitely don’t spread misinformation it try to influence others decisions. The people talking nonsense, denying science and harassing others piss people like me off too.

[quote visitingagain]@thepeopleversuswork it would be nice to think the anti vax people are poorly educated but sadly that's not my experience. It cuts straight across all levels of society and seems to be connected to personal influences- people they know or admire either in real life or online. Look at Eric Clapton and Van Morrison.
There needs to be a huge bonfire of the covid threads to keep it in check before mumsnet turns into a notorious anti vax haven.[/quote]
I imagine for some it's the association with the sinister and obviously authoritarian point of view you appear to be espousing here OP, telling people what they are and aren't allowed to think or say.

Did it not occur to you that you that you and others like you are having a counter-productive effect on vaccine take-up? That the more you belittle and 'other' anyone with an opinion you don't like, the more they'll resist the message you are supposedly advocating?

Or maybe that's your endgame here. Push more people away from vaccination by being so intolerant about it, so that the only option is then to make it mandatory and you get the proper authoritarian, 'everyone do as they're told' state that you presumably want.

Oh @Notthemessiah I am fed up with being told I am sinister or authoritarian, as @Saucery says if people went round saying that mmr was a terrible thing their comments would be taken down. And a number of other topics are also banned.
@TisTheSeasonToBeVegan you've been on these threads before I think and you have a very tenuous argument against vaccines which even PETA don't support. ( apologies if you are a different extreme vegan) Your point of view is probably not going to change and I think you need to be really upfront about that, not say "sadly I live very quietly" because it's a choice you've made, from a point of view that makes you willing to accept the benefits of my vaccination, your family's vaccination and the wider community's commitment to social cohesion, without contributing. I have a serious problem with this point of view being discussed as a possibility on boards where it might influence more people, because the fewer people who get vaccinated the more possibility there is of even more variants arising.
But also because it's just a bit anti social, and disappointing that someone who feels that ethical living is really important should be so silly.
And this is why I think we need more moderation of the covid topics.

And also @Notthemessiah I don't support people being physically forced to have vaccines. However as I think I have said before, if you actively choose not to be vaccinated for no medical reason ( including actual mental health) then I see absolutely nothing wrong with your lifestyle being more restricted - having to do more pcr tests, to access certain events or self isolate for longer if you get a positive etc. I'm so pissed off at the amount of doubt spread around vaccines and masks on here, we need to have everyone working together to get out of this situation.

I don’t see this on here. All I see is people attacking anyone who isn’t on the ‘Save the NHS’ bus and calling them thick. It’s just Brexit all over again to be honest.

visitingagain

I have no idea what you’re talking about so I’ll accept your apology. I haven’t given my reason for not being vaccinated as it’s no ones business.

What has being vegan got to do with anything? And what is your comment about ‘another extreme vegan’? I’m not sure what I’ve said to make you say I’m an extreme vegan, I haven’t mentioned my diet on this thread although did talk about my diet on another thread earlier....not sure how saying dried fruit for iron is extreme though. 😬

Sorry @TisTheSeasonToBeVegan but there was someone on the covid threads who wouldn't have the vaccine as some animals had been killed in the original production of the vaccine, but even PETA and the vegan society don't hold that this is a problem as no more animals can be harmed in the process.
Apologies if that's not you. I hope you have a really good reason for not having the vaccine as I would hate for you or anyone else to be ill unnecessarily.

That's shocking @Innocenta but not actually surprising.

visitingagain

So you jumped to the conclusion because of my username? And then said ‘another extreme vegan’ How nice you are. 🙄 Check with mumsnet if you want, I have name changed for Xmas but haven’t posted my reasons for not having the vaccine on my previous username as it’s no one else’s business.

It’s best to be respectful of people’s choices in life whether that’s vaccinations, diet or anything else. You should try it.

Well, you do seem pretty similar @TisTheSeasonToBeVegan and I'm hoping you have a much more sensible reason for not being vaccinated. There's a sizeable amount of anti vaxxer influencers who have a crossover with vegan influencers so it's worrying to see 2 of you.

@Saucery

And the ridiculous “side effects” posts. I had the first AZ and my ears went hot, my tongue went chartreuse and my leg fell off No. That didn’t happen. Stop telling lies to frighten people.

And the, I finally went for my jab today and the vaccinator spat in my face and called me a cunt. Followed by a sock saying, Oh wow, well I was going to get vaxxed but after reading that I'm not now because the state is abusive.

I mean, ffs.

Please ask MN to confirm that I have never posted about my reasons for not being vaccinated. I’m not sure what else to say.

I am fed up with being told I am sinister or authoritarian

Maybe don't start threads that are sinister or authoritarian then?

You say that any threads that said MMR is terrible would be taken down, which is true and fair enough, but you don't just want threads saying the COVID vaccines are terrible to be removed - you want any that say anything other than that they are wonderful to be deleted. Bit of a difference.

@Notthemessiah
MMR was proved NOT to cause autism and when uptake fell it caused outbreaks of measles, mumps and rubella- very dangerous to pregnant women.
Mumsnet will take down threads that say it causes autism because they are anti vax.
The covid vaccine does prevent severe outcomes and deaths from covid. People arguing that it doesn't are similar to those anti vaxxers who get taken down for MMR / autism posts.
So my question is, why do these posts stay? I don't know. But you haven't really understood what my point is.

Also, @Notthemessiah how come you think taking down MMR anti vax posts is ok but not anti covid vaccine posts? I'm curious

So my question is, why do these posts stay?

Have you reported them? If posters are spreading misinformation, they’ll be deleted. If they’re not, ask mumsnet for an explanation.

[quote visitingagain]@Notthemessiah
MMR was proved NOT to cause autism and when uptake fell it caused outbreaks of measles, mumps and rubella- very dangerous to pregnant women.
Mumsnet will take down threads that say it causes autism because they are anti vax.
The covid vaccine does prevent severe outcomes and deaths from covid. People arguing that it doesn't are similar to those anti vaxxers who get taken down for MMR / autism posts.
So my question is, why do these posts stay? I don't know. But you haven't really understood what my point is.[/quote]
I don't think you've understood your own point tbh.

Presumably posts get taken down about MMR causing autism because it has been proven to be untrue, whereas people posting about potential side effects from the COVID vaccine or pointing out any problems with it are telling the truth?