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Under 14s in NZ to be banned from ever buying cigarettes in their lifetime

234 replies

Shouldiwearmyhairinaponytail · 09/12/2021 15:42

metro.co.uk/2021/12/09/new-zealand-bans-people-14-and-under-from-ever-buying-cigarettes-15743607/

Thoughts?

OP posts:
user7514254 · 10/12/2021 06:40

But it’s a fact that we make a huge amount of tax from smoking, far more than costs the country in treating smoking-related illness. Where is that shortfall going to be made up from? Are people prepared to pay higher income taxes to make up the shortfall?

Smoking kills, get a grip, what other harmful habits can we make money from? What a dumb reason lol

RoseAndRose · 10/12/2021 07:15

@CrikeyPeg

All this will do is create another black market revenue stream for the gangs to run alongside their P distribution. Roll on 2023.
Yes, that will exist, but I doubt it'll be a major factor. Because the aim is for that generation and all following never to take up smoking in the first place,
Theluggage15 · 10/12/2021 07:22

If hardly any young people smoke in New Zealand, there’s no need to ban it.

P0ntiacBandit · 10/12/2021 07:22

This will just create a black market and something like a drugs market. Her obsession with bans is stupid.

Theluggage15 · 10/12/2021 07:26

Lots of things kill, it’s no different for smoking than any other lifestyle choice. I never get this obsession for everybody apparently needing to live to 95 and to do that people flail about looking for things to ban. Arden will probably go for alcohol next.

megletthesecond · 10/12/2021 07:32

Good idea. Cigarettes are totally different to alcohol. A glass of wine is fun. A cigarette is rank.

Presumably the loss of tax will be balanced out by a healthier population with fewer cancers and heart disease.

50ShadesOfCatholic · 10/12/2021 07:34

@Theluggage15

Lots of things kill, it’s no different for smoking than any other lifestyle choice. I never get this obsession for everybody apparently needing to live to 95 and to do that people flail about looking for things to ban. Arden will probably go for alcohol next.
But smoking-related disease is totally avoidable so why would we not seek to prevent it? Just because "lots of things kill" doesn't mean we shouldn't try to prevent avoidable harm and death.

Generally a good health service will try to support its clients to maintain good health so to turn a blind eye to the legalisation of the most addictive drug has been the travesty. Well done to Labour for having the balls to make a stand and help the next generation maintain good health. My son is 14 and thinks its an "awesome" development.

Next we need to tackle the way alcohol is marketed.

YourenutsmiLord · 10/12/2021 08:44

I think the minority groups in NZ are the ones smoking most. Most likely older people I would think.

AlternativePerspective · 10/12/2021 08:52

Good idea. Cigarettes are totally different to alcohol. A glass of wine is fun. A cigarette is rank. so? Wine kills too, and it kills a lot more people than cigarettes do because in general more people drink than smoke.

There are to issues here. The first is that people are applauding this headline grabbing move because most people don’t smoke and don’t like to be exposed to it. fair enough. smoking is vile. I detest it and Would love for it to not exist, but it does. And by the same token, where people find alcohol fun some people find cigarettes enjoyable. I have no idea why but they do. So maybe alcohol should be banned as well? And apart from “it’s fun,” if not, why not? Alcohol consumption leads to liver and heart failure, increased violence, including domestic violence. Alcohol is not something which only affects those who drink it, it has far-reaching consequences. In fact it is fair to say that alcohol addiction is far more detrimental than addiction to cigarettes.

Alcohol causes people to lose their jobs, their homes, their friends and families, it creates victims of violence and abuse, and that’s before we get to the health consequences. Other than health smoking doesn’t cause any of those things. But most people wouldn’t be applauding a ban on alcohol because they personally drink and they would see it as an erosion of their freedoms. So if the purchase of cigarettes is to be banned then so should the purchase of alcohol. There is 0 reason why alcohol purchase can’t be treated in the same way.

The second thing is that this ban is progressive. I suspect that if it were suddenly banned altogether, while people would argue that it would create a black market, thE majority would say that it was a good thing over all.

But here cigarettes aren’t just being banned, the age of responsibility is being increased. Right now people have to be 16 to have sex, 17 to drive, 18 to drink or to vote, or to buy cigarettes. What the government over there is proposing is that the age of consent to certain things is increased year on year.

So next year you might need to be 18 to buy cigarettes, (or is it 14 given that’s the age they want to bring in?) the year after 19, then 20, until one day it’ll be said that “you need to be 18 to drink, but 45 to buy cigarettes, even though you can smoke them if you wish….”

Where does it end? Where else will the government feel they can just gradually increase the age limit where you can do things? To drink? To vote? To have sex? Maybe to claim certain benefits? Cigarettes are an easy way to bring this kind of thing in through the back door because on the whole most of the younger generation don’t smoke so it won’t affect them. But once a law is brought in and made solid to be able to increase the age of certain responsibilities it’s a lot easier to extend that law to other elements of life.

Lima1 · 10/12/2021 09:09

As someone who's parents both have COPD caused by smoking, I think this is a brilliant idea.
In Ireland we all said the indoor smoking ban would never work and now most people are amazed we ever put up with smoking indoors in the first place!
I would go a step further and ban it altogether. Its a disgusting, vile habit that not only impacts the smoker's health but those who have to breathe in the second hand smoke.

OldaRailer · 10/12/2021 09:12

I believe that my lifelong health has been impacted by my parents smoking though I can't prove it. It was noticeable how certain issues that showed up when young cleared slowly after I left home.
I hate smoking.

BarbaraofSeville · 10/12/2021 09:14

It's a good idea in practice, but I have no idea if it will lead to a black market or problems for foreign tourists, although I suppose they could always bring their own?

Data probably shows that the peak age for starting smoking is something like 13-17, so if you make it difficult or impossible for people around that age to access cigarettes, there's a good chance they'll never start smoking at all.

OldaRailer · 10/12/2021 09:16

For pregnant women the public smoking ban in Scotland resulted in a significant reduction in pre term deliveries and an overall increase in baby weights at delivery.

fromdownwest · 10/12/2021 09:32

@megletthesecond

Good idea. Cigarettes are totally different to alcohol. A glass of wine is fun. A cigarette is rank.

Presumably the loss of tax will be balanced out by a healthier population with fewer cancers and heart disease.

If your primary driver was a healthier population in NZ, you would be tackling their chronic obesity problem first.
TurquoiseDress · 10/12/2021 09:35

Hmm actually I think this is a great idea, getting smokers started young is one of the things I imagine that increases the chances of them continuing to be life long smokers, thus securing revenue for the tobacco companies

DGRossetti · 10/12/2021 09:47

I heard this story on the radio. It wasn't quite as pure as it sounds. Well, not going by the spokesperson they asked.

Apparently they have to do this as the smoking rates among "The Maori population" is too high. But it's OK for (as they said) "the European descended population".

Whiffs of white man saviour complex cunning coupled to the anti-smoking nutters.

I wonder what NZ will do if vaccination rates among "The Maori population" is too low ?

bumbleymummy · 10/12/2021 09:51

@DGRossetti something for ‘the greater good’ no doubt.

DGRossetti · 10/12/2021 09:57

[quote bumbleymummy]@DGRossetti something for ‘the greater good’ no doubt.[/quote]
I don't think they quite put it that way. But it was certainly the faux concern for "other people" that made this unstoppable. It was certainly framed as noble while new zealanders selflessly allowing tobacco to be banned to save the poor Maori population. (Totally unchallenged by the rather dripper interviewer).

Personally, I dislike the hypocrisy around allowing smoking (which kills thousands a year) and banning (say) cannabis which never killed anyone. Drives a cart and horses through the fantasy that we aren't ruled by other peoples morality. And once you accept that (as we have) it's just a question of whose morality are we going to live by ?

Worth remembering C.S. Lewis:

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. They may be more likely to go to Heaven yet at the same time likelier to make a Hell of earth. This very kindness stings with intolerable insult. To be "cured" against one's will and cured of states which we may not regard as disease is to be put on a level of those who have not yet reached the age of reason or those who never will; to be classed with infants, imbeciles, and domestic animals.”

50ShadesOfCatholic · 10/12/2021 10:28

@DGRossetti

I heard this story on the radio. It wasn't quite as pure as it sounds. Well, not going by the spokesperson they asked.

Apparently they have to do this as the smoking rates among "The Maori population" is too high. But it's OK for (as they said) "the European descended population".

Whiffs of white man saviour complex cunning coupled to the anti-smoking nutters.

I wonder what NZ will do if vaccination rates among "The Maori population" is too low ?

Wow. Really?

You know that health policy in NZ isn't designed by race, it's designed by policy makers who are informed by research. And yes Māori and Pasifika are of course amongst the decision makers as are Pākehā, Asian etc.

Māori vax rates have been a big concern, yes for Māori -and for any normal person who cares for others, but the latest stats are excellent.

You know what smacks of colonial superiority? Your post. Breathtakingly arrogant.

DdraigGoch · 10/12/2021 10:33

@Darkpheonix

As a smoker I think this is a good idea.

I have conquered may things in my life. But not being able to quit smoking for more than a couple of years.

Going to try in the new year again. I started at 13. Wish they just didn't exist to be honest.

So being an age where it was illegal didn't stop you starting? So what makes you think that increasing that age will work?
Darkpheonix · 10/12/2021 10:47

@DdraigGoch because I bought them in shops?

Wouldn't have been arsed trying to locate black market ones.

DGRossetti · 10/12/2021 10:47

You know that health policy in NZ isn't designed by race, it's designed by policy makers who are informed by research.

You say that. But I heard what I heard. From the official rolling it out.

Bear in mind a lot of UK health initiatives are targeted at "the vulnerable". I refer you to Mr. Lewis sage observation from the last century.

But let's return to the pretence of harm reduction. What happens when you remove smoking as the #1 cause of death ? Presumably you move down the pop parade to whatever is currently #2. Alcohol ? Obesity ?

And what when we have cured that ?

TomPinch · 10/12/2021 11:06

@DGRossetti

You know that health policy in NZ isn't designed by race, it's designed by policy makers who are informed by research.

You say that. But I heard what I heard. From the official rolling it out.

Bear in mind a lot of UK health initiatives are targeted at "the vulnerable". I refer you to Mr. Lewis sage observation from the last century.

But let's return to the pretence of harm reduction. What happens when you remove smoking as the #1 cause of death ? Presumably you move down the pop parade to whatever is currently #2. Alcohol ? Obesity ?

And what when we have cured that ?

Lol.
mam0918 · 10/12/2021 11:33

@Theluggage15

Such a stupid idea. As if it will actually stop people smoking. You have to be so naïve to think it will work.

Her pandemic policies pushed 18000 more children into poverty but oh she’s so inspirational and cares about the young.

I thought the smoking ban here wouldnt work... as a smoker I touted that it wouldn't last the year and they wouldn't be able to enforce it.

Now I laugh at the thought it was ever acceptable to smoke in doors and how stupid I was for thinking it was stupid... I also quit due to the impracticality of smoking and haven't smoked in 14 years now.

These measure DO work.

billy1966 · 10/12/2021 12:32

Brilliant idea.

I believe 50% of those who smoke will have a health issue from it, alcohol does not have a figure in any way comparable.

I think it's great.

I would be desperately upset if any of my children took up smoking.

I say this as a 1am smoker after drink in my 20's, early 30's before kids.

I loved a smoke with drink but was very lucky never to have been addicted.

They are awful.

I know a few women as acquaintances through the school that are only in their 40's and whilst I have never seen them smoke, I have smelt it, and it is clear as day from their skin.

Sheer vanity should keep women away from it, if not health.

It absolutely wrecks skin.

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