Under 14s in NZ to be banned from ever buying cigarettes in their lifetime

[Shouldiwearmyhairinaponytail]

metro.co.uk/2021/12/09/new-zealand-bans-people-14-and-under-from-ever-buying-cigarettes-15743607/

Thoughts?

I think this will backfire on NZ. Banning things that people decide they want pushes the supply of that item into the hands of criminals.

Prohibition in the USA made the Mafia (and other gangs) very powerful, because lots of people still saw nothing wrong with drinking alcohol. And if the only place they could get it from was criminals, they dealt with criminals. It normalised dealing with criminals, gave the criminals a veneer of 'respectability'. And that has made it impossible to eradicate such gangs.

It's all very well saying you're banning cigarettes for the under 14s, but a 13 year old will be 18 in five years time. Are they still going to accept this when a 19 year old can legally buy them? What about when they're 25? 30? Will the law really look reasonable banning a 30-year-old from buying something a 31-year-old can legally buy? Really?

Are NZ banking on 'if they don't start at 14 they won't ever start'? It strikes me they really don't understand human nature. And show a bit of a totalitarian streak we should be wary of, because if they pass such a law, which product is next on their (potentially long) list?

I once saw a Tweet reflecting on the US opiate crisis that said 'I would like to congratulate drugs for winning the war on drugs'. Which makes you think!

Smoking is uncool here. It's for old people.

The ban is just the end of a long road.

Theoretically fine. But totally discriminatory and nanny state. Presumes couples of different ages never get together. Vaping will likely be seen as the new smoking in 20 years time and according to a pp (struggling to find the post), vaping in NZ is rife. Plus ça change.

I don't like this idea. I think if something is legally available to buy, any adult (or anyone over a pre-determined age of reason) should be able to buy it. Saying that (in 10 years time) a 30-year-old can buy cigarettes but a 23-year-old cannot makes no sense to me.

I would actually be more supportive of a law banning under 21s or even under 25s from buying cigarettes because a) it is known that people under those ages don't have the same ability to assess risk vs short term benefit, so there's a scientific justification and b) I think most people who smoke probably started before their early twenties.

What I think is strange, is that the moves to make the smoking of tobacco illegal continue at a fast pace, whilst at the same time the calls to decriminalise drugs grow ever louder. I can see a situation developing where people are going to get done for smoking cigarettes but be allowed to take drugs, safe in the knowledge they will not face prosecution.

@Shouldiwearmyhairinaponytail

I agree it certainly does, but then I think, what’s next? Alcohol, fast food ?

Not remotely the same.

If Im in Pizza Hut having a greesy Pizza and vodka cocktail it doesn't magically defuse through the air into a child on the next table eating Salad and drinking cordial and get her drunk and fat - smoke would/does effect others.

It's not a bad idea. Banning it for those who are not yet addicted as still children but allowing current smokers to carry on sounds an better approach than banning across the board. I'd suggest very few people start smoking after the age of 20 anyway.

@Shouldiwearmyhairinaponytail

I agree it certainly does, but then I think, what’s next? Alcohol, fast food ?

The state of the health of many kiwis, fast food should definitely be next to go!

@alternativeperspective not the smokers 😂

I think the elephant in the NZ proverbial waiting room is Obesity.

Ranked 3rd in the OECD rankings for adult obesity.

This will kill far more than smoking? Mandatory government exercise?
No junk food if BMI >18? Mandatory Gastric Band operations?

Provide people with choice, but more importantly, provide them with education, so they can make a well informed choice.

Well it doesn't sound like a bad idea. Interesting to see how it pans out.

@Shouldiwearmyhairinaponytail

I agree it certainly does, but then I think, what’s next? Alcohol, fast food ?

There are zero benefits to smoking. Zero. You have to eat, and fast food has its place in a healthy lifestyle. Not sure yet where I stand on booze but it should be more expensive to reduce consumption.

I'm all for smoking bans. What's to lose?

@ConfusedParticle

Cars cause cancer too, but nobody is in a rush to cancel them.

I can get away from a smoker but i cant get away from traffic, sadly.

Our world is simply fucked up and fairly random. Yet governments make a serious shitshow of exhibiting any true concern about climate change or the environment.

Whilst that is true, Govts have tried to reduce the harm from car exhausts, so banned lead in petrol, tighter emissions but transport is needed for our society to function, smoking is not.

The reason most Govt's don't make any real effort on climate change is because we, the electorate, do not demand it, we'd rather pretend it wont happen

I hate smoking. Never smoked, never wanted to. Used to work in a bar pre-smoking ban and ended up with cough variant asthma that the GP thought was almost certainly a result of passive smoking.

I still don't think this is a good idea. I don't agree with banning things in general, and as a rule it doesn't end the activity, just pushes people into criminality.

@AlternativePerspective

And from what I’ve read and from people I know over there JA’s popularity is fast diminishing.

“Ahead in the poles” means nothing. So is Boris Johnson, and yet…..

class="underline">pollingforthenextNewZealandgeneralelection Polling for preferred PM November 2021

Ardern (Labour) 42%
Seymour (ACT) 12%
Collins (National) 7%
Luxon (National) 3%.

She remains popular and her nearest rival reminds me of Ramsey Bolton from Game of Thrones.

As a smoker I think this is a good idea.

I have conquered may things in my life. But not being able to quit smoking for more than a couple of years.

Going to try in the new year again. I started at 13. Wish they just didn't exist to be honest.

For the UK that's

Starmer 31%
Johnson 27%

www.statista.com/statistics/710316/prime-minister-voting-intention-in-great-britain/

Brilliant idea. They should do it in Britain as well.

It's a great idea.

I know the 'freedom fighters' would moan here but it's a no brainer really.

I was also very struck by the liver specialist on the programme Adrian Chiles made about his drinking who told him that if we had understood the effects of alcohol and were discovering it now, it would be a banned substance because it causes so much damage.

Last night, DH and I watched a programme on BBC iplayer about an intensive care ward in Gwent, Wales and the ITU Leader said addicts are their biggest users and they are often full of alcoholics or long term drinkers/smokers who have caused awful damage to their organs with alcohol use or smoking.

I do think there is a question about what we allow people to do to themselves. I have a friend who works as a consultant in an ITU and he says alcohol dependency is at the root if a lot of their admissions.

It costs a fortune to keep a patient in an ITU for even a day.

I don’t get people’s enthusiasm for banning stuff. It is as if some people would like to be school children for their entire lives and have all decisions taken away from them.

Such a stupid idea. As if it will actually stop people smoking. You have to be so naïve to think it will work.

Her pandemic policies pushed 18000 more children into poverty but oh she’s so inspirational and cares about the young.

@TomPinch

I'm in NZ. This will work. It's very, very rare to see a young person smoking. Only old people do it.

The reason is that the young people are all vaping like crazy and vape shops seem to be everywhere. The government isn't doing anything I know about this. My DD's school has a big vape problem and it's the best state school in the city.

Yes, imo they should ban vapes first. Loads of kids here are vaping but you can't smell that off them when they come in. So easy to hide.

I’m sure nothing ever gets smuggled into NZ.

Banning something makes it more desirable.

Cant quote directly but there are papers out there detailing the (very few!!) Positive benefits to smoking. Just going on memory but I think I remember blood vessel dilation, relaxation, reduction of stress levels (along those lines?) And some others

But these are very few compared to the vast number of detriments that we all widely know (and obviously we know more now than we ever did in the past.)

It's an interesting concept but if you're really looking to improve the overall health of a nation you need to look at all the other risk factors that exist and address those too. One addiction tends to get replaced by another in my experience and I'd agree history shows that prohibition doesn't usually work.

As I say interesting.