Under 14s in NZ to be banned from ever buying cigarettes in their lifetime

[Shouldiwearmyhairinaponytail]

metro.co.uk/2021/12/09/new-zealand-bans-people-14-and-under-from-ever-buying-cigarettes-15743607/

Thoughts?

@ThreeFeetTall

I assume anyone against this move is also in favour of legalising (and taxing) all drugs?

Yep. I certainly am. Prohibition has never, ever in history worked. Literally ever. Cultural change is what’s needed.

In Scotland the SNP have been begging Westminster to allow us to treat drug use as a mental health issue here rather than a legal one. We have the worst heroin problem in the world and heroin being illegal isn’t magically making that go away. Time to switch tactics.

"I think they should introduce an NHS surcharge for anyone who smokes."
Not unless we start charging whole groups of people, including a woman who knows that she'll need a C Section on her next pregnancy, yet goes ahead.

"Also passports for smokers that keeps them out of certain venues unless they can prove they haven't smoked for at least a week."
You don't shed nicotine. A stranger isn't going to pose any risk to you because they've smoked, unlike a drinker. Although I love a drink and have never smoked. Stupid suggestion.

@Enb76

I think the level of control that governments think they can have over people is quite scary.

And then you look at some of the answers on this thread and realise that people are very happy to be controlled - or rather, to have other people controlled for things that they don't personally like.

Yes, that part is even scarier.

Our friends moved there 10 years ago when their children were tiny. They have a lovely lifestyle - very sporty and wholesome - and a great house and garden with a swimming pool. However, they want to move somewhere else when the kids leave home, they say it’s rapidly changing from the country they fell in love with.

I do think smoking bans are a good thing, but it’ll just mean a black market for cigarettes. Kids will think it’s cool to go and score cigs from some shady dealer, and there’ll be fake ones with god knows what in.

Cigarettes don't get you high though. So its nothing like comparing it to drugs and alcohol.
It will become a chore to get illegal tobacco.

They will be after alcohol next.

@CheesyFootballsAreEvil

Seems a good idea to me stop people starting

It really won't. I started smoking when I was 14. I wasn't legally allowed to buy cigarettes, but I still got them.

I'm surprised that so far, no one has mentioned the race aspect of this. 25% of indigenous Maori are smokers who will be accusing the governmant of racism. Just a thought.

@AlternativePerspective

I assume anyone against this move is also in favour of legalising (and taxing) all drugs? it’s not about being against it, it’s about being realistic.

IMO smoking is a vile habit and I would love for it to not exist.

But it’s a fact that we make a huge amount of tax from smoking, far more than costs the country in treating smoking-related illness. Where is that shortfall going to be made up from? Are people prepared to pay higher income taxes to make up the shortfall?

Also, this law proposes that it will be banned for under 14’s. Given many people live into their 80’s and 90’s smoking won’t be banned altogether until the 22nd century. Banning under 14’s isn’t going to make smoking less of a scourge, the smokers, most of who are over the age of 50 or so, are going to continue to be around for the next 50 years or so.

So in truth this is just a statement, “let’s ban cigarettes being sold to under 14’s, and eventually no-one will be able to buy them ever.” Except that by the time that “one day” arrives Arden and all her followers will be long dead.

The tax revenue is actually more than off-set by the overall economic costs of tobacco use to society (reckoned to be £10bn v £13.7bn in the UK as at 2016). The tobacco industry is wholly parasitic: there won't be a need for higher taxation.

I don't know if banning sales to under 14s will work, but I applaud the attempt...

Someone thinking about the health of the nation rather than tax dollars.

bollocks. The health of the nation isn’t going to be impacted by this. Not for decades.

So it is going to be impacted then, in the long term? Which makes this an example of a government doing something for the long-term health of its people, even though it won't still be in power when the benefits come.

Social posturing at it's finest.

Banning a product does not negate desire of people to use it, as has been proven throughout history with drugs and alchohol.

All you do is move it from a regulated and taxable entity, towards an unregualted product sold by criminal factions. Of which, will also most likely be involved in the sex trade, people trafficking and drug trafficking.

Education is key, banning smoking in pubs and bars, made a huge dent in smoking numbers.

Don't ban the product, educate.

@Ponoka7

"I think they should introduce an NHS surcharge for anyone who smokes." Not unless we start charging whole groups of people, including a woman who knows that she'll need a C Section on her next pregnancy, yet goes ahead.

"Also passports for smokers that keeps them out of certain venues unless they can prove they haven't smoked for at least a week."
You don't shed nicotine. A stranger isn't going to pose any risk to you because they've smoked, unlike a drinker. Although I love a drink and have never smoked. Stupid suggestion.

Yes indeed we should indeed charge whole groups of people. For example an alcoholic smoker would be charged double.

It will sort of happen anyway won’t it? I don’t know anyone who smokes under the age of 40 any more - and among younger people it’s even rarer. I also think making it a banned substance is probably a bit heavy handed - adults should have some personal choice, even if what they choose is bad for them.

I'm in NZ. This will work. It's very, very rare to see a young person smoking. Only old people do it.

The reason is that the young people are all vaping like crazy and vape shops seem to be everywhere. The government isn't doing anything I know about this. My DD's school has a big vape problem and it's the best state school in the city.

If the governement has set the precedent that their primary driver is the health and wellbing of it's residents I assume that mandatory exercise for people with BMI outside of the acceptable range.

"I think they should introduce an NHS surcharge for anyone who smokes”

Seeing as approx 80% of a packet of cigarettes is taxed I would say they already do pay that surcharge.

Wow have in read this correctly? That the legal age at which someone can buy cigarettes will go up every year? So if they start with the age being 18 now, in 20 years time you’d have to be 38 to be able to buy cigarettes?
I hate smoking but I can’t see that working.

I don't know what's wrong with people who agree with this. What happened to freedom? We'll soon be banned from anything remotely dangerous.

@Bagamoyo1

Wow have in read this correctly? That the legal age at which someone can buy cigarettes will go up every year? So if they start with the age being 18 now, in 20 years time you’d have to be 38 to be able to buy cigarettes? I hate smoking but I can’t see that working.

So I think it's going to be like this:

Year 1: You are 14. You can't buy them, nor can anyone younger than you
Year 2: You are 15. You can't buy them, nor can anyone younger than you
Year 3: You are 16. You can't buy them, nor can anyone younger than you

And so on.

So eventually the selling of cigarettes will be banned and before that there'll be fewer and fewer people able to buy them so it might make stocking them unviable for shops/manufacturers?

I would be happy to see tobacco use vanish but I can't see this working.

@LoveB

I don't know what's wrong with people who agree with this. What happened to freedom? We'll soon be banned from anything remotely dangerous.

Yes having the freedom to cause cancer in other people is a right i will lay down my life for.

I really dont like smoking or recommend it, but I really dont like this level of meddling. It's state control at it's worst.

Cars cause cancer too, but nobody is in a rush to cancel them.

I can get away from a smoker but i cant get away from traffic, sadly.

Our world is simply fucked up and fairly random. Yet governments make a serious shitshow of exhibiting any true concern about climate change or the environment.

@Enb76

Because banning stuff works so well.

Prohibition works
War on drugs etc...

This is a terrible thing - the only thing that banning stuff does is lead to criminality. Banning something gives it a power it would not otherwise have.

Absolutely right. Banning can't be enforced and will cause criminals to step in to provide the missing . goods. They will make millions out of the ban. Then you have to wonder what else will be banned. It is wise to distrust the authorities when they talk about doing things for your own good.