AIBU to have requested single sex rape crisis therapy?

[IamSarah]

My local rape crisis centre offers a dedicated support group for trans and non-binary survivors and a women's group open to anyone who identifies as a woman.

After a male (presenting as male) turned up in the women's group I requested an additional group for women who were born women. This request was turned down and I was told that group support isn't for me. AIBU?

YABU: You shouldn't need an additional, exclusive group for biological women

YANBU: Under these circumstances, a single sex group just for biological women was a reasonable request

Has something else happened to prompt a further thread.

Just the centre still not bothering to respond to me and blocking me on social media. They are acting like IABU - they put out a social media post suggesting my request was abusive and hateful. I am sure they think me speaking about it is also abusive and hateful.

It made me wonder how many people think IABU. I obv think my request was very reasonable.

I think they're hoping I'll shut up and go away but they're wrong.

I'm stunned at the insensitivity of some of the comments on here.

OP, you have my utmost respect and compassion. I'm sorry for your experiences, I'm sorry for the abject failure of the service that is supposed to be there to support you. I'm sorry for the callous, flippant disregard some posters on this thread have shown.

The person's trans status is really neither here nor there. It doesn't matter how they presented or what word they choose to use to describe their inner identity. A male is a male.

Most rape victims are female. And obviously all rapists are male (apart from vanishingly small cases of joint enterprise, I believe - as rape is defined by the presence of a penis).

Most women experience sexual assault. Most women will understand on a very visceral, immediate and blindingly obvious level the reason that a rape victim would want a space free from males. The 97% on the poll shows this very clearly.

To the 3% who are willing to say to a rape victim that she is not worthy of support, that she has 'prejudice' that is unacceptable, that she is mistaken about the sex of the male who turned up in her support group - do you really not ever stop to think, even for a moment, that perhaps it is you who is lacking in compassion?

Thanks Solas. I've reported my previous now.

What I said, as well as reproducing katrina's now deleted post was:
This is an appalling attack on a rape victim, it also deliberately misrepresents what happened, as Sarah has already explained on this thread.

I've reported your post. I hope you get banned. You certainly deserve to be.

Also, OP, feel free to start as many bloody threads as you like. There is no rule, as far as I'm aware, that rape survivors are limited to discussing their experiences to only one thread. FFS.

@AnyFucker
that if

YANBU OP. Of course, and always, YANBU. So sorry this happened to you and you aren't even allowed to have proper group support from women

Of course you’re not unreasonable. I’m so sorry

rapecrisis.org.uk/about-us/why-women-girls/

'Research conducted by the Women’s Resource Centre found that women who had used women-only services greatly valued this support. An independent poll of 1,000 women across the UK found that 97% of those interviewed thought a female rape victim should have the choice of accessing a women-only support service.'

kareningalasmith.com/category/single-sex-services/

'Women experiencing trauma after violence and abuse will, like most of us – almost always instantly read someone who might be the most kind and gentle trans identified male in the world – as male; and they may experience a debilitating trauma response as a result. It’s not their fault, it’s not a choice and it’s not something they can be educated out of. It’s not hate. It’s not bigotry. It’s not transphobia. It is an impact of abuse and they need space, support and sometimes therapy – not increased confrontation with a trauma inducing trigger; not nowhere to go that offers a woman-only space.'

@AnyFucker

It is really concerning that someone with stompy’s views runs a MH support group

I think you'll find most NHS employees support trans rights.

I think you'll find most NHS employees support trans rights.

It's not trans rights that's the issue here though, is it?

What about the OP's right not to be triggered by a male body when she needs support?

@AnyFucker

A male presenting as a male, female or as a fucking teapot should not be in a women’s rape therapy group

Yes, this. YANNNNNNNBU OP

Next up, how NHS staff support lying to women in single sex wards and informed consent is "racist".

Op, nor anyone else, has asked for the group for TW to be closed down.

While we're at it stumpy any chance of letting us know how fair it is that TW have two groups to choose from and natal women just one. And those that need single sex have non.

Or are you going to continue to ignore the question?

Apologies for this derail.

This seems a clear example of what happens when men’s views, preferences and feelings are privileged over women’s experiences of sexual assault. Male abrogation of responsibility for their actions god yes NAMALT before I’m accused is understandable but I just don’t understand why so many women also rush to be eager handmaidens. It’s depressing.

@Stompythedinosaur

So trans rights trump woman's rights to single sex spaces for rape support? Is that what you are saying?

I have asked this in a variety of ways and you have yet to answer.

And following from that you believe that trans rights should see them in Women's refuges, prisons & toilets?

@beastlyslumber

YANBU. It makes me so angry that women are being excluded from much-needed services that WE set up! For women!

Great that there's a men's group and a trans group. Fab. But why isn't there a group for women?

I really don't understand why this is the case either?

@SolasAnla

Next up, how NHS staff support lying to women in single sex wards and informed consent is "racist".

Well the inter-sex card has been played so it's only a matter of time before the racist one is.

I think you'll find most NHS employees support trans rights

What “rights” are you talking about ?

@Stompythedinosaur

But the issue here is ultimately a trans identity issue.

I believe that a trans woman is a woman, so should be able to attend a woman's group. The reality of that we have no idea and no need to know what is in anyone else's underwear.

I want everyone to to able to access appropriate support after rape. But what do you expect services to do when you decline to share space based on a prejudice? They are hardly going to exclude another woman who also needs support due to such feelings.

I have an experience of running a MH support group where a member didn't want a gay woman to be able to join as this made her uncomfortable and her belief was that homosexuality is wrong. Clearly we did not go along with that. I think the situation being described here is very similar.

That said, if the situation described by the op (an attender who was a man, rather than a trans woman) happened then I think they have been very poorly treated and should complain.

I agree with you. A trans woman can also be raped and might feel equally comfortable in a men's or mixed group. But I appreciate that this is an extremely difficult and sensitive subject with lots of trauma linked to it. A trans woman is very different than a man turning up.

It's not trans rights that's the issue here though, is it?

What about the OP's right not to be triggered by a male body when she needs support?

Absolutely.

@titchy

Op, nor anyone else, has asked for the group for TW to be closed down.

While we're at it stumpy any chance of letting us know how fair it is that TW have two groups to choose from and natal women just one. And those that need single sex have non.

Or are you going to continue to ignore the question?

I'll answer this one, though I'm just about done with being personally attacked for voicing views on a thread where several posters specifically asked for people to explain why they thought differently.

A trans woman may need a space to explore issues regarding being trans as well as issues regarding being a woman. Just like a woman of colour might need a group to look at experiences of being a woman and experiences of being a person of colour.

To claim trans women are privileged because they have to content with multiple different ways of being oppressed is ridiculous. It is appropriate for them to have additional support in my view.

I think you'll find most NHS employees support trans rights.

Not sure why you have continued to frame this as not supporting trans rights.

What part of supporting trans rights means that males should not respect female's needs to have single sex spaces? I think that you seem to be pushing your own agenda here stompy.

We also know that there are many trans people, including males who identify as trans, who support women needing to have these spaces. And constantly told that trans people are no longer denying that they remain the sex they were born.

Did you also miss Nancy Kelley, the CEO of Stonewall, the other week stating that women should be able to receive trauma services such as this that suits their needs? Even if that means excluding males from these spaces.

I really think that you are not quite up to date on the latest developments here.

A trans woman is very different than a man turning up.

Not in this case. For the reasons explained above. At length and in detail. Have a read.

A trans woman may need a space to explore issues regarding being trans as well as issues regarding being a woman.

If a transwoman is a woman, why can’t she address issues associated with rape as a woman in the group for transowmen? She will be surrounded by women so should get the support she needs as a woman.

I think the only people who think women shouldn't have the right to female only support are handmaidens or dodgy fuckers.