AIBU to have requested single sex rape crisis therapy?

[IamSarah]

My local rape crisis centre offers a dedicated support group for trans and non-binary survivors and a women's group open to anyone who identifies as a woman.

After a male (presenting as male) turned up in the women's group I requested an additional group for women who were born women. This request was turned down and I was told that group support isn't for me. AIBU?

YABU: You shouldn't need an additional, exclusive group for biological women

YANBU: Under these circumstances, a single sex group just for biological women was a reasonable request

Is it right that you were actually offered 1-1 counselling but instead ran to the Daily Mail

I believe the OP has already addressed this on this thread katrina and 1:1 was offered as an option with its 12 month plus waiting list. Maybe take the time to at least read Sarah's posts if not the whole thread?

That aside why shouldn't the OP go public? Personally I found group therapy more effective than 1:1. Hearing other women talk about feeling the same as me made me feel less isolated. It aided my recovery.
Whats wrong with that katrina?

@gogohm

Did they have a group for men? Men do experience domestic violence and rape.

It seems that they didn't have a group for him from what you've said.

Personally I haven't experienced what you have so I know know how you feel but more generally a group for rape survivors for instance isn't sex specific

Do you know anything about rape survivors at all, whether male or female? You can't do otherwise you wouldn't have made such a mind numbingly crass comment.

Males and females who require rape services need very different and separate services and provision, it's not a fucking knitting circle where they just sit and chat ffs.

"Scientifically" I think it is a bit more complex than that due to issues around being intersex.

Are we going to get the link to the blog post on American Scientific or is there a new study or paper that actually can support your claim here?

It is not more complex than the fact that even those with differences of sex development can almost all the time be categorised into female and male categories. They are not a politically expedient group of people. Stop utilising their medical conditions to progress what is at best pseudo-science.

Otherwise, link up some peer reviewed and robust studies (ones that can be repeated to get similar results) to back up your assertions. I, for one, would be interested in seeing some new studies and papers.

And by the way, even Claire Ainsworth came back and clarified that there are two sexes and within those categories there is a wide range of body types. Just in case you were going to link up her usually misrepresented article.

I agree Bore that it’s a slogan trotted out and repeated without thought and I’ve heard ii in my own family but on a thread about rape it seems the epitome of thoughtless and highlights just what a dangerous slogan it is.

so it would seem that instead of campaigning against inclusive rape crisis maybe the so-called 'feminists' on Mumsnet might want to consider campaigning for more rape crisis support - but then that wouldn't give feed the transphobia.

MN feminists have for a very long time campaigned for more services for women from better health care, better pay, childcare, benefits, DV and rape support the problem is that males are accessing those women only support services which means the women that these services were designed to support are now isolating them in favour of supporting males.
But that's OK with you I assume katrina?

so it would seem that instead of campaigning against inclusive rape crisis maybe the so-called 'feminists' on Mumsnet might want to consider campaigning for more rape crisis support - but then that wouldn't give feed the transphobia.

Inclusive service, what are you on? This exclusive service that excludes the majority of users who require it?

The Law allows for and recognises the need for separate sex provision, the Law allows exclusion of males from female rape crisis services.

Anyone who thinks that raped and traumatised women should have to relive their experiences in front of men, the very sex class they have been victimised by, is a person with zero humanity.

Silly me thinking group therapy was a different thing to 1 to 1 support...

so it would seem that instead of campaigning against inclusive rape crisis maybe the so-called 'feminists' on Mumsnet might want to consider campaigning for more rape crisis support - but then that wouldn't give feed the transphobia.

Whatever are you saying?

Do you honestly think that feminist poster's on MN are not involved in supporting campaigns for greater support for females? (then you would be greatly mistaken)

Or are you saying that feminists should be 'everyone's mum' and be campaigning for ALL people's needs for rape crisis support.

Shouldn't feminism centre 'females'? Or has the meaning of feminism changed over the past 50 years?

Plus, you seem to be very much showing a great deal of prejudice about Mumsnet posters there.

[quote Austen33]@MothershipG "Reality is that Sarah was traumatised by a person with a penis and so of course does not want to put herself in a vulnerable position around people with penises.
How is this in anyway unreasonable?"

It isn't, but that would also apply to a man who has been raped by a man?[/quote]
I have no idea what the preferences of a male rape victim would be and don't see how it is relevant?

The vast majority of rape victims are women, Sarah is a woman, & a real person, who needs a single sex setting for group work. She has been denied this to cater to a person with a penis who has alternatives, she does not.

Hopefully there will also be a group setting appropriate for male victims but that is not what this thread is about.

you are most definitely not being unreasonable

I'm sorry you are getting some quiet astoundingly insensitive comments in this thread.

Of course rape crisis group counselling for women should be single sex otherwise it's not a bloody women's group it's a people group.

Yep as others said it was an 18 month wait.

I also wasn't asking them to change any of the existing groups, just add one additional single sex group.

'Running to the Daily Mail' yes I did feel guilty. Ironically the nature of sexual violence is to feel guilt for the perpetrator and worry about them and their reputation rather than looking after your own needs and setting your own boundaries.

Wouldn't it be relevant that a males who re-experienced trauma due to proximity to other males work with rape crisis centres to find a solution that works for them?

It would actually not ever be appropriate to have a male in a female group. It would be appropriate if that group of females were in a 'mixed sex' group and that there had been no males and then a new male member started. Then all the females would know that the group would potentially have males in it and make a decision based on that.

[quote Austen33]@MothershipG "Reality is that Sarah was traumatised by a person with a penis and so of course does not want to put herself in a vulnerable position around people with penises.
How is this in anyway unreasonable?"

It isn't, but that would also apply to a man who has been raped by a man?[/quote]
Yes it could apply to a man who was sexually assaulted by a man or by a transwoman.
Similar to a woman may need a different approach if a woman or a Transman was the abuser.

I would hope that the organisation would be honest and open with the participants as to what can and can not be provided and who can participate in the groups.

Looks like MNHQ agrees that katrina's posts are out of line here. Hope the banhammer was swung as well as the deletions.

@IamSarah
@stompythedinosaur

Stompy you are really delusional on both counts transwomen are biological men and secondly you really think that a rape survivor shouldnt be concerned about what genetalia a person has. Your lack of understanding is astounding. Please explain why transpeople get their own groups and women dont. And which sex is it that mostly rapes

@BoreOfWhabylon

Looks like MNHQ agrees that katrina's posts are out of line here. Hope the banhammer was swung as well as the deletions.

I hope other women's eyes are being opened to just how lacking in anything approaching kindness and humanity those who support this destruction of female only services are.

It is really concerning that someone with stompy’s views runs a MH support group

Hi Sarah. I know there’s been several threads about this and you had overwhelming support on here. Has something else happened to prompt a further thread.

@Stompythedinosaur a transwoman attending a female rape support group is not ok. It’s never going to be ok. How many women who were raped by someone with a penis is going to want to discuss their ordeal with a person with a penis. The fact that the person identifies as a woman is irrelevant. Women do not have a penis. Why can’t the trans person use the trans group for support. It’s a disgrace and yet more erosion of the rights of genuine women.

Ah yes, the Mridhul Wadwha school of support, @AnyFucker.

Sending you my support Sarah. You are right to post on here - so many people are still not aware of what is going on. Going to the Mail was exactly the right thing to do.

@urbanbuddha.
@BoreOfWhabylon.

You may wish to self report your posts to as MN has removed the original posts

Thanks MNHQ
🌻